Gun building on the decline ?

[talon]

Hello, I've noticed fewer guns listed on tow's web site over the past few months. Could be reflective of less people building guns? Or are folks just finding other places to sell their wares.

 

[necchi]

I live near Track,
They currently have 5 pages with guns listed, :idunno:

Dave is a shrewd trader, He's in business.
And a business is supposed to make money,

That means buy low/sell high,,
Sometimes the people he buy's from won't sell for the price he offers,
I have been in the shop when folks come in with guns to sell,,
Again, Dave is a shrewd trader,, :shocked2: :wink:

I don't think what Track has to sell is any indication of fewer builds happening, folks are just getting smart enough to by-pass the middle man.

 

[Bill Hall]

Yes, Dave is a shrew trader. I have traded with him a couple of times via correspondence and phone. "Due to the economy.... Because of where the market is now...(throw in a compliment on your craftsmanship to soften the blow)... but we here all agree that your rifle is worth....". Then he throws in the "I've been doing this a long time, so...."

Shrewd trader yes, but I like the guy.Bill

 

[wulf]

I have four guns at tow. one wheel lock,a marshal
french type flinter and two kentucky pistols..
two are now showing under guns and flintlock
pistols...my name is not advertized on them.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I don't think this is the case since there is at least a 12 week wait for a barrel from Jim Chambers. Also TVM said it will tak 3 months to get a kit gun from them out to me since they are back logged. Could be they can't afford to stock these items anymore and have to order them as well but not likely.

 

[kaintuck]

all these rifle are hand built by someone...can't buy them from China!
I am glad to see we still have craftsmen in America.....but I do believe it's a dying bred...I mean, how many kids build model airplanes or cars these days? How many times do we buy something already made at the hardware store, just because it's quicker and available???
There are builders out there...and being 'backlogged' proves there are more people needing than building......

 

[Vaino]

Have viewed TOW's consignment sales for many years and have sold a few through consignment. The number of guns posted throughout the years has varied a lot and isn't an indicator of the present number of active builders.....seeing the number of guns posted seems to depend on the month of the year. No doubt the lousy economy is taking it's toll on his business, but Dave said that it's surprizing how many foreigners buy from him......Fred

 

[dave_person]

Hi Talon,
I don't think guns for sale at TOW are an index to anything. Most of the knowledgeable, skilled, and prolific makers of whom I know rarely consign guns to TOW. Of course, as the the current number of old retired white guys diminishes, there may be a decline in the number of makers because I don't believe there is an equal-sized cohort of younger makers out there to replace them.

dave

 

[Birddog6]

I don't think TOW guns avail. means anything, except right now they may not have as many as other times. Next month they may have 7 pages of them.
As for guys selling other ways, sure. Why sell on a site & lose 35%, when you can sell it yourself & keep all the $ yourself. :idunno:

As for rifle makers, I feel there are more builders right now than there was 20-30 years ago. LOTS of good gun makers out there right now. Some well known, some not. But I have sure seen some beautiful work in the past 10 years & there are more every day.

The internet has brought ALLOT of them to light in the gun building world.

Keith Lisle

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I agree theres a lot of legendary local gun builder out there that until the last 10 years went unheared off unless you happened to live near them. I am deployed and still have request and people waiting for me to get back and build them a gun. Prolly cuz I am willing to work for a little bit above beer, but thats irrelivant. I feel at least with the people I am around the sports making a comeback.

 

[matt denison]

Hi Talon,
I don't think guns for sale at TOW are an index to anything. Most of the knowledgeable, skilled, and prolific makers of whom I know rarely consign guns to TOW. Of course, as the the current number of old retired white guys diminishes, there may be a decline in the number of makers because I don't believe there is an equal-sized cohort of younger makers out there to replace them.

dave

I agree. I can track my sales of kits vs. finished guns over the past 5-6 years and the proportion of kits has fallen off by a large margin. Guys are buying finished guns, too tired or too old to bother building like before. I always get excited when a young guy is interested in building a kit.

Someone mentioned building models. I'll add erector sets, tinker toys, etc. to the mix. Kids aren't interestd in that sort of toy anymore. That is only a toy to mom and dad but is really training for the future. I grew up MAKING stuff in dad's shop, making go-carts, picture frames for fun. Fixed my own bicycle, did my own mantainance on my junky cars etc. It was all training. Where does those skills come from now? Not from playing video games, that's for sure.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Man I guess I was lucky as a kid. I am 37 now but when I started shooting by dad refused to ever let me buy a built gun unless it was a modern gun. If I wanted a muzzleloader I was told I had to build it myself. First gun was a 32/45 cal kit that came with both barrels, after that We took a class together though I was a wee'lad of 12 years old I made my gun from a block of wood as did he great course by the way. I learned you will like it more and respect it better if you made it yourself. Although sometimes it easier to buy it made. My kids all shoot except for the baby but shes only 3, but she shoots a bb gun and likes it too. I am even building the wife a gun when I get home just because the kids call her out, and she can actually shoot from a bench dang good just not so well off hand yet. I look at guns like a antique car, you can buy one all done up or you can build it yourself and get the kids involved, they will remember helping you and the gun will mean something to them as well when they begin shooting it. The car you bought done you will likely sell it has no meaning the car u built will have a special place in your heart and you can look at your hands and see scares and remember how and wear ya got it, same with guns I have never sold a gun I have built may have past in on to my kids, or another family member. I have sold to may manufactured guns to count. But hey it just my opinion.

 

[SuperKirby]

I'll jump in here as a younger guy that would love to build a few. But how do you get started? From reading it sounds like a lot of guys started by taking a class or something. I've looked around and there aren't any that I can find. I've talked to a couple people within a few hours of me that build guns, asking if there's any way they would just let me watch and tell me what they're doing, but so far they don't really seem interested in that. So what does one do? I am thus far unable to convince my wife that it's a good idea for me to buy a kit and see what happens. She seems to think that's not a prudent use of a limited budget.
So what does one do?

 

[Black Hand]

I am thus far unable to convince my wife that it's a good idea for me to buy a kit and see what happens. She seems to think that's not a prudent use of a limited budget.
So what does one do?

Buy some component parts and start practicing inletting. I'd still view a cheap kit as an investment in your education.

Sometimes, the best way to learn something is to just do it. You will screw things up, but will learn much more from fixing your mistakes.

 

[Baxter]

This is, IMHO, a really great string, including Little John Z's posting. My daughter runs the TV for hours and hours close to my computer and I am amazed and disgusted with amount of advertizing of 'action toys' that are sort of 'scripted' as to their function - where is the imagination in that? When I was a kid, if I had time after schooling, chores and field work I could play in a small sandbox with tanks, etc. that I crudely made in my dad's workshop. This past early summer I decided that I absolutely had to have a good flintlock of the 18th century style. I can almost nail two boards together and probably not smash my fingers. The surest cutting I could do with a chisel or gouge would be on my left hand. I can probably fix your heart attack and close your chainsaw wound but building even a kit flintlock is way, way beyond me so I asked Kaintuck to build a rifle for me - I'm not wealthy by any means; had to sell several milsurps to come up with the money but I am getting what I want and after seeing some of the photos of the rifle, I am just plain tickled!

 

[SuperKirby]

I've thought about going that route and having one built, but about 4 years ago we moved to my wife's family farm. It's been in her family since 1870-somthing when the original family came over from the Netherlands and settled the farm. The longer I live here, the more I've seen my views change and opinions and lifestyle change. In an effort to become self sufficient, the thought of killing a deer with a ball I cast shot from a gun I built is something I need to do. So for me personally, I would rather have a gun that's not necessarily perfect or pretty but that I built then from a gun I bought. I have a lot of guns I've bought, they just don't seem to do it for me anymore.

 

[hoochiepapa]

There are tutorials here on the website, Mike Brooks for one, and if you can afford a kit, follow his steps. I built my first rifle from a kit, and didn't know come here from sic'em. It came out pretty nice, and I use it for hunting around here. I've since built a couple more, and one I sold, but I am pretty good with tools. You need to learn how to sharpen, and you can get tutorial dvd's in different places. Some guys here talk about their first rifles as being ugly as sin, but they shoot good, you have to set your mind to that. And there's lots of help here.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Not all builders are in the business of selling their guns. Some build only for their own use.Others may also build for their children or close friends. At big shoots you can walk up and down the range and see many fine custom rifles. Very often if you ask who built it, the shooter will say he did. I believe the revival of traditional ml shooting that began in the 1930s and really boomed (no pun intended) in the 70s is going strong and preserving history quite well.

 

[mikemeteor]

In an effort to become self sufficient, the thought of killing a deer with a ball I cast shot from a gun I built is something I need to do.

SuperKirby - you have the motivation. that's 75% of the game. Buy a book ( Dixon ) and some parts and some tools (if you need to) and get to work slowly and deliberately... and banish the notion of "shortcut" when at the bench. that's the only way to "get started". And once you get started, you might not quit for a while.
/mm

 

[SuperKirby]

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I know where I can get my hands on an older traditions percussion rifle that I can take apart and see if I can't try my hand at inletting to some scrap wood.
I had some money set aside to order "Recreating the American Longrifle" and "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" but as is the case with everything else in life, unexpected bills showed up and all that jazz, so the books will have to wait. Can someone point me to where the tutorials are here? I tried to search but don't seem to be trying the right words. I'll keep trying though.
Also, sorry to hijack this post. It's kind of something that I've been wanting to ask, and this seemed like as good of place as any.