Gun don't shoot
- Thread starter Rawhide67
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I have a nice Fusil de Chasse that used to do the exact same thing (only mine was 12" to the right of the point of aim). Tried everything and finally decided to bend the barrel (sounds scary I know), I had never done it before either. I made a set up just like the drawing semisane posted and did some careful bending. Took it back to the range and it was better! went home and did some more bending and went back to the range and it was shooting right to point of aim! Has shot great ever since. Now of course my FdC is a smoothbore with a thin wall barrel so I had to be very careful, but the principal is the same with a thicker rifle barrel.
Great video. There is a whole lot of truth to the fact that metal like that has a memory. A friend of mine that is now in his 90s used to fix bent propellers in the same manner. Aluminum propellers have a memory like steel does.
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Locate the tight spot using a tight r/r tip and patch , and see if it equates to the position of the rear sight dovetail. If it doesn't , it could be due to heavy handed vise tightening. In my estimation , gun barrels need to be loose fitting from the first barrel pin lug to the muzzle. , on long barreled rifles. By it's nature , a .40 is one of the least problematic calibers on earth. Also , if the adjusting the sights don,t fix it , get anew barrel.
Wouldn't barrel bending cause issues when the installed in the stock?
I may have been pre mature in posting the question for a friend anxious for answers. I've known him for 35+ years, and I've heard stories about the gun over the years. He was excited to get the gun back, but remembered the issue with POI vs POA.
I may have been pre mature in posting the question for a friend anxious for answers. I've known him for 35+ years, and I've heard stories about the gun over the years. He was excited to get the gun back, but remembered the issue with POI vs POA.
@Rawhide67, any issues in reinstalling the barrel in the stock are minor. The bend will be slight, and the stock will conform to the altered (bent or in this case straightened) barrel's exterior profile.
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Maybe bending the barrel isn't really the correct term for the sort of adjustment being discussed. Re-straightening the barrel might be a more correct term. You won't have any trouble with the "re-straightened" barrel fitting back in the stock unless you waaaay over did it. Also, remember the barrel supports the fore stock, NOT the other way around so the stock will fit the barrel with no issues when you go to re-install it.
Lonewalker
40 Cal
Sounds like it shoots fine... perhaps simply operator headspace error 
- Steady position
- Aiming
- Breath control
- Trigger squeeze
If the two owners of the rifle are getting reasonably sized groups but impact and aim can't be aligned, then the nut behind the buttplate is sufficiently tightened. A trial group should be shot to verify the difference point of aim and point of impact. That grouping would establish the direction the barrel needs to be flexed to straighten the bore.Sounds like it shoots fine... perhaps simply operator headspace error
- Steady position
- Aiming
- Breath control
- Trigger squeeze
Needless the muzzle needs to re-examined to verity the integrity of the muzzle and the crown.
@Steve Martin 's comments reminded me of something I read a while back. The short excerpt inserted below is from Saskatchewan and the Rocky Mountains, by James Carnegie, the Earl of Southesk (page 55). This remarkable book tells of the Earl's trip across the Canadian plains and into the Rockies for sport and pleasure in the years 1859 and 1860. Pierre Nummé, mentioned in this passage, was an elderly, biracial French/Indian man hired as a guide. The Earl bought Pierre a trade musket, and this describes how the old fellow got it shooting to his liking:
It sounds as if Pierre knew what he was doing, and we get the impression this was pretty common practice. I do think barrels back then were most likely of wrought iron, with very little "spring." Modern steel barrels may react differently.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
doubleset
50 Cal.
Can you clamp it in something, aim and fire it -- in order to remove yourself totally as a variable here? I'm wondering how "custom" it is, and whether something like stock cast-off might be affecting the "accuracy" of this rifle across several different shooters. Just a thought. I think I'd try that before I started bending the barrel. Or just take it to a competent gunsmith and have him check it out for dimension and alignment issues? A few bucks in that direction could save a lot of heartache.
i had a friend bring a flintlock over to my house the other day that was built a while back and it had the same issue, it to be a Colerain barrel, we pulled it out right on my range and put it between 2 trees growing side up and gave it a little bend, and bam! shot right on with the sights Stright in line. it does not take much adjustment, go a little at a time ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Lonewalker
40 Cal
I like where you said : " A trial group should be shot to verify the difference point of aim and point of impact."
30 year old hear say is simply silly basis for barrel bending and sight moving, Shoot it Fix it in that order
I agree, it needs to be shot. Current owner hasn't shot it since early 90's but the guy he got it from had shot it recently with typical results. Stay tuned, current owner is recovering from covid, but we will get it to the range as soon as we can.
JCKelly
45 Cal.
This is a very interesting discussion. My latest build has a C profile Rice barrel and with the sights centered, it printed a good 8" left. In order to get on bull it was necessary to drift the rear so far right it became "unsightly" and I moved the front blade a bit left to compensate. I have not encountered this degree of off-set before and have been wondering if the barrel might have been bored off center or was indeed bent. The bending fixture noted above looks very capable yet I am reluctant to try bending my barrel. Now I am pondering if a laser bore sight might be helpful in making flexing adjustment to the barrel. Tweak it just enough to bring the laser dot on center. I will discuss this with Rice for their experienced input.
smoothshooter
50 Cal.
You mean the gun won’t fire?
I'll agree, the rifle needs to be test fired for accuracy and grouping first, and the OP has acknowledged this. However, it is worth repeating, in this discussion of "bending" barrels, that we are talking about straightening a potentially bent barrel, not bending a straight one.
I have read of bending (or straightening) revolver barrels to bring point of impact to point of aim. I also read something years ago about the gunsmith and lock maker, Ron Long, employing a bending process to regulate the barrels of a SxS shotgun. Obviously, not a job for amateurs.
My knowledge of steels is limited and potentially flawed. However, it is my understanding that there may be stresses in the material that are not evident until it is machined. Rice Barrel Co. states that they heat-treat their stock to relieve the stress. I suppose this is annealing. I don't know at what point in the process they do this. I could see that after a large bar is bored, reamed, rifled, burnished, and then planed into a tapered and flared octagonal profile, it might warp a bit. I have read that old-time rifle smiths preferred "dead iron" for barrels. Straightening (described in detail by Ned Roberts) was a tedious process, but once done, the barrel would remain straight unless subjected to trauma.
I hope @Tom A Hawk will report back regarding his conversation with the folks at Rice. I know the barrel in the subject rifle is by Colerain, but comments from Rice may be informative.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
I have read of bending (or straightening) revolver barrels to bring point of impact to point of aim. I also read something years ago about the gunsmith and lock maker, Ron Long, employing a bending process to regulate the barrels of a SxS shotgun. Obviously, not a job for amateurs.
My knowledge of steels is limited and potentially flawed. However, it is my understanding that there may be stresses in the material that are not evident until it is machined. Rice Barrel Co. states that they heat-treat their stock to relieve the stress. I suppose this is annealing. I don't know at what point in the process they do this. I could see that after a large bar is bored, reamed, rifled, burnished, and then planed into a tapered and flared octagonal profile, it might warp a bit. I have read that old-time rifle smiths preferred "dead iron" for barrels. Straightening (described in detail by Ned Roberts) was a tedious process, but once done, the barrel would remain straight unless subjected to trauma.
I hope @Tom A Hawk will report back regarding his conversation with the folks at Rice. I know the barrel in the subject rifle is by Colerain, but comments from Rice may be informative.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
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Try aligning your sight. and then shoot it at two different distances. If it hits close to the same at each distance ,problem solved if not you have another problem It is a process of elimination ! The main thing is do not do anything drastic unless you have the knowledge of a gunsmith!
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