Gun Kits, ADifferent Twist

[Vaino]

Well said. :thumbsup: ....human beings are NOT "created equal" and this fact has been proven throughout the ages......Fred

 

[FishDFly]

"I don't get your point, Richard. Are you demeaning those people who aren't mechanically inclined? Well, we still need accountants, lawyers, medical doctors (analytical), truck drivers and others who may not know how to change a light bulb but are still valuable contributors to the human race. Being able to understand mechanics and make things is a great gift but doesn't elevate one over anyone else."

No, not demeaning at all, Clint Eastwood said it best, "a man has to know his limitations", I know mine and when to call a mechanic to repair my truck or a someone to repair my air conditioner and I am not a plumber at all.

Well said. :thumbsup: ....human beings are NOT "created equal" and this fact has been proven throughout the ages......Fred

Well, said.

Lots on interesting insight from folks.

I have worked with some really interesting talented folks and some really not talented folks.

As pointed out in other posts here before, some folks can take a $1,000 kit and make a $400 rifle, not all folks are equal.

 

[Swamp Rat]

found the video I mentioned earlier back on the tube will post in another thread. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cqRdcfQTcg&list=PLX7ShyVYmgCbExTOXCPk-Uy4Wm6mrK4Lm

 

[jamesthomas]

Right now I am working on a .40 cal. Southern Mountain rifle from T.V.M. this is my first rifle to make. I am going very slow but so far it hasn't been very hard. I've inletted the lock, triggers, and had to get a local car guy to drill an tap the lock plate (no charge), but After I saw how he did it I'll do my own from now on. I have only a couple of chisels and have done most of the work with them, a couple of files and some sand paper. I'll get the buttplate in the mail today an start on it today or tomorrow. I think most anybody could make a very good rifle from a kit but you have to search the archives of this and the ALR forum and read the posts on how to do each part and examine samples of the rifle you are working on, this will give an idea on how much of the rifle barrel do you show when sanding down the forearm etc., Where and how deep to inlet the triggers, also inlet the lock first before drilling the touch hole. It will help if you don't have a time limit, just work on it when you feel like it, you will make fewer mistakes. You can't look at it as a CHORE and do a good job. Btw, you have to change the forum default when you do a search because most of them only go back 30 days, I go back at least a couple of years when searching for stuff.

 

[Vaino]

You're on your way in gun building...many good insights for building "these thngs". One item though....the holes in the clamped lock plate are tapped through the drilled clearance holes for the lock bolts....not done off the gun....Good luck.....Fred

 

[steved]

SuperKirby,

If you can afford the Hawken Halfstock kit, then I say put your fears aside and move forward with the purchase. Years ago, after reading Chuck Dixon's book on building longrifles, I walked into Dixons shop and came out with a blank, a barrel, a lock and the stock furniture. I'm a desk jockey and had no prior experience building a longrifle, but I had the desire to build a rifle from a blank. I made my share of mistakes but the end result (a few years later) is the prize of my gun collection.

The wealth of information available these days in print, DVD, forums like this, and YouTube is amazing and you can teach yourself the how-to's of gun building without having to "apprentice" with an experienced builder. Of course that would help, but if not possible you can mange on your own. If you have questions you can post on this forum and get the information you need to continue your build.

As for the original question about the future of the kit industry, I don't see evidence of it going away. How may posts do we see here about the long lead time to get barrels? Seams to me there are a number of basement gunsmiths out there buying kits supplied with these barrels, creating the long backlog.

 

[54ball]

I guess a lot of this has to do with laziness. Many people do not have to do for themselves so they don't.

But....

To say someone can not accomplish a task or master a skill at least to a functional degree because they are not artistically or mechanically inclined is a cop out.

If a person who really, truly wants to learn a skill they can. If they can't, they did not want it bad enough.

Nonsense. You're implying that anyone could become a great artist, singer, or musician if he or she tried hard enough. I don't believe that for one minute. The same goes for mechanical skills.

Key note here...

at least to a functional degree

Anyone who can take a nut off a bolt can build a car. Sometimes the greatest talent of all is perseverance. Many of these great artists are great because they did persevere. They did overcome their shortcomings. So the greatest talent of all may be the ability to focus on a goal and take the steps to accomplish it.

Can't never could.

I really like high school and to a lesser extent college level athletics. Pro level can be rather boring. What I like about the lower level is seeing individuals who will not make it to next level rise above their shortcomings and....WIN!

 

[FishDFly]

That is as fair an offer as a person could receive. I am too old to take you up on it.

When I was in the Air Force in Enid, OK, I asked the local gunsmith for the same offer exactly that you offer, he turned me down.

 

[George Hoskins]

Yeah Richard, some people are funny (not ha ha)I wanted to learn scrimshaw , just as a hobby,so I offered a local guy who was good at it, real money just to look over his shoulder for a day (not even be taught). He flatly turned me down saying "I'm the only guy doing this around here and I want to keep it that way" If this guy was so good with his skills I certainly was no threat to him and I only wanted a new hobby.

 

[hoochiepapa]

No matter what your talent, any rifle or fowling piece you build will be the pride of your life. My first rifle may look like a piece of sh-- to others, but it shoots good, and to me looks decent. You just go slow and try to get help from wherever. I did so good at engraving I was called a liar when I said I had never done it before. Now I'm getting the tools together to do gold inlay, and metal clay. I'm very excited about this. Somebody take up Cowboy on his offer, you'll never regret it.

 

[Adui]

Well, I found myself in a gun store today, and found that my evaluation of prices is becoming quite off. A Traditions Hawken rifle ready to fire was $369; a kit is now only $319. Now I realize that if one doesnt already have the tools and finishing products its still likely to cost a little more, but not much. I also realize that a traditions rifle is not a high end rifle, but mine is a shooter..

So, When I am ready to spend the money to build me a rifle, should I go with a kit like this since its my first build or should I do as suggested and buy parts of higher quality a little at a time, and hope I can do them justice?

P.S. Im sorry I have diverted this thread, if this would be better in a separate thread I can go there.

 

[Swamp Rat]

Tradtions kits from what I seen take about 14-20 hours of work to complete. I spent that much time plus puttin in my breach plug. Depends on what you want to do. I will tell you this first build from parts is well and eye opener. I would go parts kit and learn from it. Its not the finished build but the experience I'm finding rewarding.

 

[Walks with fire]

Just my opinion but I think it costs a great deal more to build a rifle than to buy a factory model. To buy the components, tools, stains, and solutions is expensive. Just finding what you want and need is time consuming. Setting up a work area requires a good deal of expense for the things you need. Not to mention shipping costs getting parts from different outlets. It's a wonder anyone does it.

I would love to build some rifles but the truth is I don't have the time to shoot the ones I have already. It's a trade I would love work in but it's the old time and money excuse. If I really wanted to do it bad enough then the excuses wouldn't matter but the trade off isn't worth it. My factory TC, RMC, and Lyman rifles are a great trade off in my opinion.

 

[SuperKirby]

I can honestly say that if I was a single guy, or maybe even married with no kids, I would take you up on that offer for sure. At this stage in life I'm pretty sure that if I tried to take you up on it now, I would be a single guy by the time I got there for sure.
That said, I would certainly be interested in reading and watching your tutorials/info. Can you point me in the direction to find them?
It will be a couple months before I have the money again for the kit, but I just may have to go the direction of the kit. We will see.

 

[hoochiepapa]

I won't pretend to know what your finances are like, but I put $100 in a savings account every month, and when I have enough, I buy that certain barrel, or stock, etc.
I took my savings to a gun show here in Denver and picked up two Getz 37 inch, 50 cal. swamped barrels. I'm saving them for special projects, Getz are hard to get, and I want to make two fancy rifles ala Jerry Huddleston when I think I'm good enough.
It just takes putting your nose to the grindstone and not telling your wife how much you've got stashed.

 

[jamesthomas]

Your right, it just takes a little pre-planning. You don't have to buy everything at once.

 

[Adui]

Excellent ideas all, and no I dont particularly want to buy a kit that is basically finsihed for me. I'd like to have the inletting done as I don't have the tools for that and I think that is beyond the skill of a first time kit builder, (though I believe with some hole bits for my drill, some chisels and some files I could learn to.) But when I build it will be for the pleasure and experience of building with the hope of getting a decent finished gun out of the deal some time down the road, not to put together a paint by number style kit that has little more than staining the wood bluing the metal and assembling the gun left to do.

 

[SuperKirby]

My plan right now is to hopefully stop by TOW in a couple days and pick up the Gunsmith of Grenville County. That's essentially my stash right now. But that will give me some time to read and plan, make sure this is what I really want to do. This book is the best option for a "how-to," correct?

Next, assuming I don't feel too defeated after reading that book, I'll plan to probably just purchase the Hawken kit from Pecatonica shortly after Christmas. Then I'll post a whole bunch of questions. Hopefully somewhere in all this I can find a person or two to show me a thing or two about building between now and then.

We'll see what happens.

 

[Vaino]

Having served a 5 yr state indentured tool and diemaker apprenticeship, I can vouch for that type of training. After 12 yrs on the bench, I entered a 2 yr tool, die, mold and machine design learnership sponsored by the company. Again....this was the fast and easy way to learn a trade.

It's too bad that training to build MLers is so hard to come by....possibly it's because when we're young we don't think of such things and when older, other considerations have priority....such as a family and a job to suppoort them.

Apprentices of yore started at a very young age, say 12 yrs old and some by 17 or 18 were fairly accomplished gun makers. The more adventurous, more confident young journeymen hired on w/ other gunmakers to round out their knowledge.

Very few young people would enter a gun making learnership today....the requirements are very steep....not only is a mechanical bent req'd, but also an artistic talent.... both of these attributes are definitely req'd if one is to make a living building guns. The market for custom guns isn't all that extensive and the competition can be a big challenge. Those who compete full time in the custom MLing gunbuilding market are unique individuals.

Colin has offered a "learnership" in gunmaking and he's w/o a doubt a capable teacher w/ an extensive amount of knowledge....too bad someone doesn't take him up on his proposition....if only I were 18 yrs old.......Fred