gun prices

[oldmaster]

Some people say that muzzleloading is not very popular and nobody is taking up the sport. I don't think that is true. This weekend, in Phoenix, we had a gun show and judging by the asking prices for rifles and revolvers, I'd say that the market is rather brisk. Used to be, you could buy up these items for a decent price. Not any more. Rising prices indicate up upswing in the market for these items. Good for the sport, bad for those of us looking for a good deal. Does anybody else see this trend?

 

[Old Charlie]

I would think just the opposite to be true. The high price of guns lately will keep people from trying the sport. I know that if I were not already in the game ,I don't know if I would be willing to shell out the bucks it takes to day to try it out.
But then I am sure most folks have more disposable income than I do.
Old Charlie

 

[faw3]

Think you got it Charlie, that and more and more places closeing that used to sell the kind you find here is the "Death Bell" for all except us hold outs that have been in for awhile. Ck Claudes chart of how many yrs youv been shooting....Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Keppy]

I agree Charlie. In this area the pawn shops won't even take a tradional ML in on pawn. And if they do its got to be very good and say the ones they take in on pawn always get picked up by the person that pawned it. Lets face it with the advertising of the modern stuff "at $100 to $200 buck" it's hard to convert these modern people over to the real thing with these prices. But I keep saving for my next one. :winking: :rotf: My thoughts.

 

[FishDFly]

Without being there and seeing which guns were being sold and seeing what they sold for, it’s kind of hard to make an overall judgment.

Generally when the supply of something is large and demand is low, prices become depressed. When demand is high and supply is low, prices increase. I am not convinced that the demand is high due to an increase in the popularity of muzzle loading. I think the price increases are more a function of a scarcity of the products, with a limited demand and one remaining factor or so.

If you are looking at custom made guns, I would anticipate that the prices are increasing substantially as the number of good builders decline, costs increase and increasing wages due to the economy. One builder whom I talked with said he was going to have to raise his prices, as he was not going to make less than some one at McDonalds makes after the minimum wage is increased.

I was in a pawn shop recently looking for muzzle loaders. The owner said if it was not an in-line, he would not take it in on pawn. He said there was no market for traditional muzzle loaders. He is in the business of making money and has a feel on what his customers want.

If you consider how many companies have quit manufacturing traditional muzzle loaders, this is a very good indicator of the market conditions. Companies do not drop products that are making them money, unfortunately the demand is dwindling.

The NMLRA is struggling to maintain membership. It has around 18,000 members, that is only about 360 in each state. Indiana, Ohio and Pennsylvania have 6100 of those members. This then leaves 253 members on the average in the remaining states. I know that not all who shoot muzzle loaders belong to the NMLRA, but this is an indicator of muzzle loading declining in popularity.

I believe that places such as e-bay are affecting the number of guns that are available as they part the guns out trying to get every penny that they can for a gun.

fred brings up a very viable point, look at the age shooters today, most are over 50. I was at a shoot yesterday; all were over 50 and most over 60. How many clubs are seeing an increase in membership and how many clubs have folded in the last 10 tears?

All in all, my feeling is that those who are buying, are those whose disposable income has increased, they are at the “empty nest” stage of life (kids are gone) and can afford what they want and what is available for sale has been reduced. The overall market is declining while disposable income has increased, thus prices increase.

My thoughts,

RDE

 

[silverfox]

Went to the gun show this weekend and found a total of 7 Muzzleloaders. One booth had some caps and fake powder. The gun breakdown was renegade with broken stock ($285)TC thumb hole stocked (****)($275) Markwell Kentucky ($175) rusty, English 12 ga. with barrels so thin you could dent them cracked stock($500). Then 3 susposed to be originals 1 brass barrel blunderbuss swivel gun 1 1/4 bore so good looking I couldn't find a scratch of dent any where but the barrel not even on the swivel pole. Second blunderbuss about a .75 cal the same no scratches or dents. the third a cut off enfield with about a 18" barrel. Prices on these $7000,$4500, $2000, To me this amounts to no new people being able to get started around here. It also makes one distrust the local dealers.
The Pawn Shops haven't had a Muzzlerloader of any kind in over 3Years that I know of.
The good new had a Mountain Rifle showup at a flea market last week and will get a newbie started with it. The rifle was $85 and in good shape so keep looking deals can still be found.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[cowpoke1955]

Hi Charlie,
My wife and I will be moving to Alabama this year. We drive through Jasper on our way to Anniston. Be thankful for the internet. We can surf the web and find suppliers that offer good prices. Maybe there should be a place on this forum where we could post these suppliers' web sites. This way a new comer could get started without costing them an arn and a leg. Heck, even we can use a deal, now and again :rotf: . The big suppliers and store want too much.

 

[PreglerD]

I agree and wonder. I ever thought the USA are the wonderland for ML-shooters. In GE we have the same development. GE has 85 Mio inhabitants and only about 40000 ML-shoters. The most of them are older guys over 40. Since 4 years we have a new foundation which was able to get 600 members in this short time. All are ML-shooters and not so old. I have built also a group which belongs to this foundation. I started alone in 2005, now we are 14 ML-shooters, age from 24 to 48, so average of 35. We are pretty young. Most of us are rifle shooters, 2 hunters in the group. Number is raising. In GE ML profits from the strict gun law which let you get guns only with permission. Only single shot ML are free and BP is also now problem. So I tell every interested newby to start with ML, because then he can buy a gun right now and even the equipment.Only for the bp permission he has to shoot a half year and make a test. Then he get it, too. and no doubt, a rifled ML is a full fire weapon.

With the prices. It would be very nice from the manufacturers to produce a high quality low price gun for the newby.

Just my thougts.

 

[Jac Spring]

Well, fwiiw, I just got into flinting for the first time but I am 45. That's OK isn't it?

I had bp experience in the form of cap and ball revolvers and a TC Omega in-line and bought a Pedersoli kentuck 50 cal flinter to shoot in my rifle club's monthly traditional ml match.

Was it cheap? No, was over $500, but I could have gotten one under $400 (hawken type) so that's a little better.

I'd say the the majority of new bp shooters are choosing modern in-lines, Triple 7 powder, etc. but we probably get converts from that crowd into the traditional fold kinda like me.

 

[bucktales]

Kirrmeister, I'm glad you said "older" guys over 40 rather than "old" guys over 40. :hmm:

 

[john12865]

I have found that there is a glut of used Traditional muzzle loaders on the market.
Some range from very nice to down right garbage.
They have been traded in for inlines by people who never really were into muzzleloading but wanted the extended season.
The influx is production guns. I have found many very nice production guns and picked them up at a very nice price, but those deals didn't happen on forums like this one because we are all looking for the sidelocks. If you go on the inline forums sometimes you can find a guy that just wants someone to take a sidelock piece of junk off his hands so that he can buy something bolt action and use pellets and sabots. Everyones happy, well at least he thinks he is! :grin: This is the closest I've ever come to being a criminal. :blah: It's all about who wants what.

 

[Enfield1]

I'm 35. Am I the youngest one here? I own three muzzleloading pistols and five rifles. It is a passion for me. I love to research the era from 1750 - 1850 and try to "get it right" in terms of clothing and equipment. At the club I belong to, "The Muscogee Longrifles", I can't find anyone under 60. There is a great deal of knowledge to draw from, but it would be nice to find a shooter closer to my own age. I am a Cop. The guys that I work with are into the latest AR15 configurations and SWAT "manure". I am not into it. I think that it takes more skill to make your own roundballs by melting lead in a campfire. My wife and I have no kids for me to pass these skills on to and don't plan to have any in the future. I have offered to put on some demonstations for scout troops to atleast try to generate some interest in what we do, but haven't had any takers.

 

[Slamfire]

In Knoxville last weekend the only front stuffer over $150 was a .45 "Hog" rifle, Tennessee Mtn style, made in 1820 somethin', convertee too percussion after the Mexican War. They wanted $850, and it wuz definitly a mantle gun. The newer stuff had all been drilled and tapped for scopes.

 

[Steve A.]

Not quite. I'm 27. Not much of a young pup anymore,least i don't feel that way,but i started shooting flintlocks when i was 16. My brother bought the rifle for me,with money i'd earned mowing lawns. It was a .50 CVA 'hawken'. Of course it didn't take long for me to get distracted by fast cars and pretty girls,so i fell out of it for awhile.I still love those things lol,but there's something about those muzzleoaders i just love. I grew up reading books.Everything from fiction and nonfiction in the F&I war to Kit Carson and Jim Bridger. I wish this site had been around back then,or i may not have left the hobby like i did.I know i'm kinda rambling.(i'm good at that lol)I see that people are kinda discouraged,about the lack of interest of others. But don't give up.This is such a wonderful site. Everyone is so friendly and helpful.I've learned so much here,just reading posts about history,and marksmanship,and maintanence.I guess we all know peopel who shoot those modern things,but i think if we're patient with them and maybe direct them to the site. Maybe they'll read a little,and see why we're all so excited about these'primitive' weapons.

 

[n8dawg6]

i think that a lot of people are initially interested in muzzleloading, but drop it because they don't want to put up with the cleaning. that's the common excuse ive heard, more than anything else. (it's also why i've only bought one used muzzleloader in my lifetime, and it was from a meticulous n-ssa skirmisher. too many rusty bores on used muzzleloaders.)

the next most common excuse is that traditional-styled muzzleloaders are somehow inherently dangerous . . .. . not sure how to deal with this issue, other than to educate folks.

i think the key to the survival of the sport is to get more young folks involved. i was fortunate enough to have my uncle introduce me to blackpowder shooting when i was 14. i was hooked right away.

blackpowder shooting just requires more work, though, so i think it will always be relegated to a comparatively small group of specialists/enthusiasts (maybe we're all OCD :grin: .)

but nevertheless, you'll never know if someone's going to like blackpowder shooting until they try it. and the sport would be MUCH stronger if more young people were involved.

 

[n8dawg6]

minnieball, you're not the only youngster, i'm still (barely) this side of 30 . .. :grin: i own 13 muzzleloaders at last count :shocked2: :grin:

 

[redwing]

The cost of production guns imports for the most part are going up. This is due to that dollar thing agansit the off shore money.
We have more custom builders and semi-custom every in the history of the sport. You call anyone of them and they are a year or more behind in filling orders.
One of the new imports now can cost a $1,000.00 or more. You can get a nice American made rifle in the white for less. You may find some American made TVMs used for under a grand.
If you been around a while your first 94 saddle gun cost $65.00 now it over $400.00 and folks still deer hunt. :hmm:

 

[bpbrs]

Whom ever is making the off handed comment is not very knowledgeble.
ML is the biggest sales item the past few years.

 

[redriverclerk]

For a minute there I thought I might be the youngest, 33. 'Course, I've been rendezvousing since I was 5 or 6. I have my father to thank for that.

Our club (which he and 3 others founded in 1979) today is made up of 20 members. In its prime, we had over 100 people attend monthly meetings. Today we get 9 or 10. The good news is that 3 of those members are below 35. We're really trying to recruit membership this year, but it's tough. All aspects of this hobby are becomming too expensive for someone young to get in to, not just the gun. Wish I had the money to "donate" stuff to get people interested...

I've been looking for that cheap rifle to pick up too (only have 1, GPR), but can't find any around here...

 

[Mike Brooks]

I'm busy as I ever was. I see no decline in business. I've got a few customesrs in their 30's , wich is nice to see.
Your average "modern" gunshow rarely has anything to offer in the way of good traditional muzzleloaders.