Guns of British Fur Traders ca 1780-1818

[Nels]

This is my first post to this forum. I've been soaking up the excellent information found here for some time. Like many here, I'm doing some historical research into the early history of where I live. I've still got other sources to review but I thought I'd toss my question out to see if any one has any thoughts or opinions.

I live on the plains of western Minnesota 6 miles from the site of an American Fur Co. post located at Lac qui Parle on the upper Minnesota River. It was established in 1822 by Joseph Renville, a man with a French father and Dakota mother. He was an interpreter and guide for Zebulon Pike in 1805 and later was a Captain for the British in the war of 1812.

Preceding him, however, were a number of earlier fur traders allied with the British. I've not yet found any ties to either the Northwest or Hudson's Bay companies although there may be some. One of the earliest, Murdoch Cameron, a Scotsman, was mentioned in the February 28, 1805 journal entry of Lewis and Clark. Another was Thomas Gummersall Anderson, from Canada, who wrote an intriguing narrative of his time here in 1808-1810. He writes of buffalo hunts and waterfowl hunting. He went on to lead the British forces against the Americans at Prairie du Chien in the War of 1812.

With that as background, I'm wondering what these early traders, who literally hunted in my back yard, might have carried. Presumably they traded the Northwest trade gun to the Dakota. Did they carry what they sold? Perhaps they selected the best or obtained upgraded versions of the Trade gun? Or, did they carry English fowlers or longrifles of some sort?

Thanks for any thoughts and if there are resources or previous threads I've not discovered I'd appreciate a link.

Nels

 

[Walker]

As far as the Hudson bay Company or Northwest Company goes I expect some of the Chief Factors and Chief Traders may have had their own firearms, but the majority of the people they employed as traders were from the Orkney Islands or Scotland and most were poor as churchmice. They were successful in recruiting these men because there was no future for them in Scotland so I expect they probably didn't have much in the way of their own guns. One would expect they used the trade weapons. The only thing I could find in support of this is a quote in "The Northwest Gun" by Hanson on page 15 where two traders were beseiged by drunken Indians and in the journal of one,John Long,(1777)he writes:
"...we prepared for an attack ,loading twenty eight Northwest guns and a brace of pistols." Of course this could have been in addition to their own weapons but their is very little mention of personal weapons in anyone's journal. You might write the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, Nebraska.If anyone would know, they would.

 

[Rat]

Wow tough question...we can't even decide what rifles the Corps of Discovery carried!!

Good luck, if anyone can give a good answer, and good speculation, it/they will be around here.

My best guess is that most traders would not have been well armed, probably with a cheap trade "fusse" from the company[url] store...in[/url] other words whatever the company was using for trade at the time. Someone employed specifically as a hunter might have a rifle.

Rat.

 

[Wes/Tex]

A good source of info on the fur trade gear from guns to traps to sharp things is "Firearms, Traps & Tools of the Mountain Men" by Carl P. Russell. It covers the specific era of 1800 to 1840. Lot of good drawings of tons of gear. Good luck. :front:

 

[Okwaho]

Actually this is a fairly easy question. The Hudson's Bay Company received its royal charter in 1670 and although little is known abut the 17th and very early 18th century guns, there is information available on Northwest Guns of the 18th century and 19th centuries. There were basically three types of guns sent over by the English as trade guns exclusive of the guns intended as gifts for Indians beginning in 1699.First were the Hudson's Bay Company guns of the 17th and early 18th century of which very little is known with one possible example.Second are the trade guns from about 1720-1750 and little is known of them. I have a picture of one that might fall into that category,there is one in the Museum of the Fur Trade and a possibly restocked gun is illustrated in "Trade Guns Of The Hudson's Bay Company 1670-1970" by S. James Gooding,2003.The earliest identifiable trade gun that I have located is a restocked gun made between 1741 and 1751 under the direction of Ann Williams,widow of Thomas Williams deceased who received a contract in 1738,then died with his widow continuing the business unti 1745.,Gooding PP. 55-56. Gooding also illustrates a gun by "Wilson" dated 1751.The Northwest guns were made in ever increasing numbers after that and by the period of 1780-1818 were very common in the fur trade in Canada and the American Northwest.I would strongly recommend the book referred to above by Jim Gooding, "The Northwest Gun" by Charles E. Hansen Jr.,1992,and"Indian Trade Guns"1982 published by PioneerPress Union City, Tennessee. There is another book on these guns published recently and written,I believe, by Buck Conner but I don't remember the details.

There were also a number of guns in the late 18th and 19th centuries made in the United States and known as "English pattern trade Guns" by Henry, Leman and others which deserve study and a fine article on them was presented by George Shumway at the "Proceedings of the 1984 Trade Gun Conference",published by the Rochester Museum & Science Center, Rochester, N.Y.
Hope this helps you.
Tom Patton

 

[Nels]

Thanks for the excellent replies. There are some additional pieces of infomation that may be of interest.

Thomas G. Anderson, the British Canadian, who was here 1808-1810, wrote about several buffalo hunts. In one he states: "Putting two balls in my gun, and hiding in the grass, I awaited his coming, for he approached within twenty yards of me."

On another hunt he says: "Crack! went my rifle, and he was down and well out of misery." (Did he really mean rifle?)

There are a number of references to waterfowl hunting, primarily swans: "The whole camp was shortly moving, and I got my gun, and was just starting for shooting swan, which were flying over in large flocks..."

As was appearntly the case from that era, specifics as to the firearms were pretty rare.

There were some interesting gun artifacts found at the site of the fur post that was there from about 1822 to 1846 including lock plates, frizzens, mainsprings, and other items.

Nels