Well said!BucksCo said:
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Gunstock Shaping Ripoff
- Thread starter btech
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Patocazador
54 Cal.
I disagree. Shoddy work should be advertised just like normal advertisements are. It's the premise behind the Better Business Bureau and Angie's List.
If it isn't out there, you may be the next one taken to the cleaners.
Caveat emptor!
If it isn't out there, you may be the next one taken to the cleaners.
Caveat emptor!
You live only 30mi. away? There would not be a post here, there would not be an email sent. But I would be at his front door, with the documents showing the work and the price for the work that would performed. Pretty hard to get a fair shake now,since you went public first. My honest opinion and I am sticking to it.
I strongly disagree, Pato. We're hearing one side of a problem and forming an opinion of a vendor that may be the result of a misunderstanding between him and the guy who's posting. It's none of our business and not the purpose of this forum.
galamb
58 Cal.
Agree.
IF he had tried to work it out with the other party and was blown off that's one thing, yes, warn the world.
But, at this point the OP hasn't even got any response from the individual in question (and yes, I read the email part but perhaps the email has gone un-read/un-delivered or 100 other possibilities).
I recall another post not that long ago along these lines and when the entire story was revealed the post was removed (at the request of the one posting??).
Sometimes the perspective changes when both sides of the story come to light.
Maybe this is a "botched job", maybe it was sent out in error, maybe there was a misunderstanding, maybe, maybe...
Without bashing or judging anyone here I certainly would have done more than send an email in this instance if that's the product I received, and I was certain that I was 100% blameless in the transaction.
IF he had tried to work it out with the other party and was blown off that's one thing, yes, warn the world.
But, at this point the OP hasn't even got any response from the individual in question (and yes, I read the email part but perhaps the email has gone un-read/un-delivered or 100 other possibilities).
I recall another post not that long ago along these lines and when the entire story was revealed the post was removed (at the request of the one posting??).
Sometimes the perspective changes when both sides of the story come to light.
Maybe this is a "botched job", maybe it was sent out in error, maybe there was a misunderstanding, maybe, maybe...
Without bashing or judging anyone here I certainly would have done more than send an email in this instance if that's the product I received, and I was certain that I was 100% blameless in the transaction.
zimmerstutzen
70 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2009
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Only 30 miles away, file a small claims action in your local court, ask for whatever penalties and damages your state law permits.
My intention was to warn other muzzle loading enthusiasts about the poor product/service provided by this individual. I have seen literally dozens of posts on this forum discussing poor products and services, but I apologize. Evidently that's not what this forum exists for. For me, I wish I had read a post about this guy before mailing him my stock.
I don't know where the 30 miles came from. I live in Alabama and he is Ohio. I would spend far more in travel and other fees taking him to small claims court than the stock is worth.
I'm not asking this forum to resolve my case. I paid him in advance, so its my risk. I thought this would be a good media to warn others but apparently not.
I don't know where the 30 miles came from. I live in Alabama and he is Ohio. I would spend far more in travel and other fees taking him to small claims court than the stock is worth.
I'm not asking this forum to resolve my case. I paid him in advance, so its my risk. I thought this would be a good media to warn others but apparently not.
For what it's worth, here is my recent experience with Gunstocks Plus. I am a REAL inexperienced builder. I had acquired a barrel which was longer than most advertised stocks. After browsing their web site I contacted Gunstocks plus. Asked the question, could he do what I needed. I was told that my requests could be done and was given a rough time frame.
I received the stock later than anticipated but not enough to be an issue.The grade of wood was what I expected and the barrel length and ramrod channels were cut to my spec's.
That being said I think I was expecting a stock that resembled the one's depicted in their web site. What I received was something that was quite a bit rougher than I expected. Being inexperienced, I did not question what I received.There is plenty of wood to play with and maybe I'll learn something.
Just my experience. Not unhappy. Would I use them again? Depending on what I was going to do, Yes. For me maybe a little more discussion would have gotten me more to what I expected. However what I did ask for was supplied.
I received the stock later than anticipated but not enough to be an issue.The grade of wood was what I expected and the barrel length and ramrod channels were cut to my spec's.
That being said I think I was expecting a stock that resembled the one's depicted in their web site. What I received was something that was quite a bit rougher than I expected. Being inexperienced, I did not question what I received.There is plenty of wood to play with and maybe I'll learn something.
Just my experience. Not unhappy. Would I use them again? Depending on what I was going to do, Yes. For me maybe a little more discussion would have gotten me more to what I expected. However what I did ask for was supplied.
The first thing that any judge would ask is "What was the response when you contacted the vendor?" A reply of "I never tried to contact the vendor to get the problem solved or a refund", would get the case dropped at that instant..., unless one got a lecture from the judge about contacting the vendor to solve the problem first before wasting court time...then the case would be dropped.
Obviously, if the contract was to include a ramrod hole, and such is not present, then the stock was shipped before it was finished. Send it back to be finished, and with a letter voicing your concerns about the finished product overall.
Are you sure it was your piece of wood that you got back? For all ya know there is a builder out there who got back a 50% finished stock who is upset as he ordered a minimally roughed out stock, and what happened is your stock went to that guy and his stock went to you...
LD
zimmerstutzen said:
If you are both in the same state that might be a good solution. Have your facts lined up. I have filed many a small claims suit. The judge only needs enough facts to tip the scale about 51% in favor of one side or the other.
I have a stock roughed out by Virg. I asked him specifically what he meant by profiled and he was very clear. He said he would leave between 1/4 and 3/8 on the stock for fitting and customizing. He did rough the forearm, and was clear the forearm ends about where the RR would enter.
He took a lot of time on the phone with me and was a pleasure to deal with. I knew I was not getting a semi finished bolt together stock.
Mine came back with the RR drilled and the fore-stock routed.
No complaints from the man or the product.
Sometimes it is very important to make sure everyone's words mean the same thing.
I would use him again without question.
I would suggest giving him a polite email or phone call and let him know that the RR grove and hole were omitted. I have little doubt he will make it right.
He took a lot of time on the phone with me and was a pleasure to deal with. I knew I was not getting a semi finished bolt together stock.
Mine came back with the RR drilled and the fore-stock routed.
No complaints from the man or the product.
Sometimes it is very important to make sure everyone's words mean the same thing.
I would use him again without question.
I would suggest giving him a polite email or phone call and let him know that the RR grove and hole were omitted. I have little doubt he will make it right.
longcruise
70 Cal.
There is a saying in the sales profession; "A happy customer tells one person and an unhappy customer tells ten". You have managed to tell thousands without having done anything more than send an email! If twere me, I'd have spent some of the time wasted complaining here with talking directly to the vendor! If, after good faith efforts to resolve your problem you are still unhappy, then we might appreciate being "warned". As it is, I'm only warned not to do business with you!😞
I spelled out very specifically what I wanted done to the stock in writing in an email. Listed the items out, one by one. He agreed to each one in writing.
I had a conversation with him this weekend. He told me I agreed to all the changes. I asked him why I would have agreed to shoddy incomplete work and asked him to produce that in writing since we communicated by email. He had no response. He also has absolutely no plans to correct anything on my stock.
I have gotten several personal messages from people that have been severely ripped off by this guy. He has a reputation in the gun building community that is very bad.
I have dealt with the public in many jobs producing products. My work is always good and I make it right with the customer even taking back the product for a refund if needed. If you think this guys is right and I am wrong, you're welcome to him. I don't want to deal with you either.
I had a conversation with him this weekend. He told me I agreed to all the changes. I asked him why I would have agreed to shoddy incomplete work and asked him to produce that in writing since we communicated by email. He had no response. He also has absolutely no plans to correct anything on my stock.
I have gotten several personal messages from people that have been severely ripped off by this guy. He has a reputation in the gun building community that is very bad.
I have dealt with the public in many jobs producing products. My work is always good and I make it right with the customer even taking back the product for a refund if needed. If you think this guys is right and I am wrong, you're welcome to him. I don't want to deal with you either.
Troy Sweeney
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2014
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I ordered a stock-blank from Virg. Weeks later it had not arrived. I called - he said they overlooked my order. I had ordered a blank only and he sent a pre-carved? I called and left a message with his company and they have never called me back. I suspect he indeed needs to retire and I understand - business today is extremely difficult...regulations, book-work, cranky customers. So here I sit with a stock I can't use.
Blackbruin
40 Cal.
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- Jan 23, 2013
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1 post? sounds like a lets gang up on mr otto!we heard your complaint, everyone was warned, funny but i haven't seen any questions on who i could send it to next time? weird?
The way this guy is running a business we can't gang up enough. Plus I didn't know his reputation prior to my dealings with him.
I called many custom stock makers before I found this guy. They all were anywhere from 6 months to 2 years back logged and several wouldn't do blackpowder, full stock work. Custom work on a modern stock is quicker and has more profit.
Now I'm sure someone will come on here and tell you they got one in 2 weeks but all I can say is call around and find out for yourself. I did a Google search for custom stocks and called about a dozen. I couldn't tell you who to go to. Evidently a bad economy has not slowed the custom gun market one bit.
I called many custom stock makers before I found this guy. They all were anywhere from 6 months to 2 years back logged and several wouldn't do blackpowder, full stock work. Custom work on a modern stock is quicker and has more profit.
Now I'm sure someone will come on here and tell you they got one in 2 weeks but all I can say is call around and find out for yourself. I did a Google search for custom stocks and called about a dozen. I couldn't tell you who to go to. Evidently a bad economy has not slowed the custom gun market one bit.
Troy Sweeney
32 Cal.
- Joined
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I just joined. Perhaps I'll have more to say from here on out. And about Virg, seems to be a fine gentleman from my talks on the phone. I wish only the best for him.
Flintfan69
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2005
- Messages
- 246
- Reaction score
- 75
btech said:
Just a suggestion, but next time why don't you use all that extra time and money it took waiting/getting a pre-carved stock, to learn how to make one yourself from a blank. Anyone that can build a gun from a pre-carve, can build from a blank.
That way you'll have no one to complain about other than yourself. In the end you'll be much happier, and be less reliant on other people's work, which will never live up to your expectations. I think I learned that when I first took up this hobby at 16.
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