H&A underhammer question

[tree]

Back around 1960/61 early in the production runs
for Hopkins&Allen underhammers I was a teenager
getting into muzzleloading for the first time.
The underhammer model I was interested in was a
round barrel and cost about $50 as I remember.
My father was opposed to it on the basis that it
was "ugly" and so for the same price I got into
a DGW long rifle kit gun.
I have always been curious as to how these shot
and I have never come across a round barrel in
all these years. So my question is any of you
forum members ever had one and how did it shoot?
I do have one of the swivel barrels that I will be trying out when weather permits.

 

[frogwalking]

The H&A I bought back in the '60s was a .58 caliber with a rather thick octagon bbl. I put a Bushnell banner scope on it, and it was extremely accurate. The only difference the round barrel made was a few dollars cheaper if I remember correctly; and another model to lure buyers. The sear wore out on mine, which would let the hammer fall when quite inconvient. Miller, the local blacksmith/gunsmith, welded a piece of stellite to it. It never wore out again.

I am currently building a .54 underhammer on a Pete Allen action. I got the "kit" from Tip Curtis.


Although I still remember the old H&A with fondness, I always thought the sear/hammer engagement was weak. I hope the Allen action has solved this issue.

 

[FishDFly]

I have gone brain dead at this time, not the first time.

There is a gentleman who did post here who builds some really nice custom under hammer rifles and he recently posted here, he is a machinist and a very good one.

Maybe some one will remember his name, he is a wealth of information, seems Taylor is his name, first or last.

There is not a lot of information on under hammers here which is sad, one of my favorite styles.

Folks from Waldron, IN can help you, again, I cannot think of their name, call them, no web site, folks here will give you the name.

 

[hawkeye2]

The Numrich barrels were very good quality for their time and a decent one will still hold its own today. I remember a friend who had a H&A in the mid 60's and he shot some pretty impressive groups with it. I'm assembling a few H&A style underhammers and have a number of NOS and excellent used Numrich barrels which I will use and I'm sure they will out shoot my abilities by a wide margin.

 

[bpd303]

Rifleman1776 will be along directly. He was a dealer for the H&A underhammer's and is a wealth of info on them. I have two underhammer pistols and love them.

 

[Billnpatti]

Here is a site for you http://underhammers.blogspot.com/

The place in Waldron, IN is Deer Creek Products. That is where I purchased the parts to build my H&A .45 underhammer buggy rifle. They had everything except the barrel and I got it from Long Hammock in Florida.

 

[M. De Land]

Here is mine in .45 caliber with a GM barrel 1-60 twist. It started life as a Buggy rifle in the early 70's.

This action has been completely over hauled. I made a new breech plug when rebarreling and threaded the action, replacing the tapered cross pin with two set screws.
The breech plug both threads into the reciever as well as the barrel and the opposing set screws lock it all together making a much more rigid unit than was original.
New trigger and hammer pins along with a flash divert have made this an excellent shirt sleeve off hand target rifle.
The pistol grip was 1/2 x1/8th flat stock heated and forged to shape on an anvil.
The trigger lever has been extended to the back of the trigger bow/mainspring and the sear stoned. Mike D.

 

[M. De Land]

I have really liked these actions since first seeing one and will have to buy one one day to build a rifle on.
Where can they be had and how much should I expect to pay? Mike D.

 

[M. De Land]

This is the nipple wrench that had to be built to remove the flash guard for cleaning.
The guard was designed to match up to the bottom flat and a bit of flat on either side and is held on by an extended length nipple that flushes out internally with the bore,locking it into position so it cannot turn. It is milled out hollow internally to the same basic profile as the exterior allowing the hammer nose to swing up inside.
The removable brass plate on the bottom of the guard covers the troth for wrench access.
This design completely eliminates any need for forearm protection and can be shot in short sleeve shirts with no discomfort. It also keeps most of the back blast residue out of the forearm.

Mike D.

 

[M. De Land]

The design could stand improvement though. If I ever have need to make another I will mill out less where the hammer nose is viewed leaving it wider here. This would even direct more of the nipple wash down and away.
Several burnt forearms and a few jacket sleeves catching fire where the impetus for this design. Mike D. :rotf: True Story!

 

[FishDFly]

Nice design.

I can see one improvement to make if it was mine.

In the flash diverter, I would drill a hole from side to side through it, so I could insert a brass rod or cotter pin to make a type of safety.

That is my one complaint against under hammers, no half cock.

 

[Billnpatti]

I have seen them at two or three different places but the only one that I remember is Deer
Creek Products in Waldron, IN. That is where I bought mine 6 or 8 years ago. I don't remember exactly what I paid but it was similar to what you would expect to pay for any regular lock. I'm thinking I paid around $100 for it but I am not sure. I've slept a couple times since then. I'm old and I'm crazy and I forget things easily. Hell, I'm just a hop and skip from drooling on my shirt and peeing in my pants. :haha:

 

[frogwalking]

The .58 H&A mentioned above certainly had a halfcock notch, as does the Allen rifle I am currently making.

 

[FishDFly]

I have 3 Ingrham under hammer rifles and 4 Ingrham pistols, none of them have half cocks.

I only use the pistols for matches and have learned how to handle them. The real down side to Ingrham pistols is that they do not have a trigger guard which makes them interesting to shoot.

Seems that most under hammers do not have a half notch or a mechanical safety that I have seen.

 

[Billnpatti]

The underhammer action that I bought from Deer Creek Products in Waldron, IN. does have a half cock notch. The only time I use it is when I am loading to allow the trapped air to escape so that the ball seats and stays on the powder. I never cap my rifle and carry it on half cock because of the likelihood of the cap falling off. I will carry it on half cock but without a cap. Seldom have I capped my rifle to shoot and had the cap fall off before I could shoot but I have had it happen. It's rare but it happens. I guess it's just one of those things, along with the cap fragments to the forearm, that make an underhammer so special. In spite of these "special events", I love to shoot my underhammer and it is a tack driver.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I did try putting one of those brass cone thingies on my underhammer but with it in place, it was dang near impossible to get my big finger between the hammer and the cone to seat a cap. I ended up dropping too many caps and not being able to find them and with the price of caps being what they are now, I was dropping a lot of money in the dirt. So, I took the dang thing off and I shoot without it. I do like the looks of the one that M.D. made. Wish I was a machinest and had to tools to make one like it for myself. Great idea, M.D. :thumbsup:

 

[Metalshaper]

Well here's mine
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'My' version of an H&A with no pins in the frame.
Double set trigger, a half cock position on the tumbler and also a wearing a fly. Wooden ramrod rib and Horn Nose cap.

The Builder that was mentioned is John Taylor! great guy, and a super builder..

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

a lil closer view

 

[Billnpatti]

SA-WEET!!!! My jaw is hanging open. That is one beautiful rifle. I know you are proud of it. :thumbsup:

 

[Metalshaper]

SA-WEET!!!! My jaw is hanging open. That is one beautiful rifle. I know you are proud of it. :thumbsup:

Thanks!

My Bud and I made/make these frames in his shop. then I took it home and played a lil bit in mine :wink:

Respect Always
and Merry Christmas to all of you!!

Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[Richard Kemp]

My H&A "Offhand" has a half cock safety. My previously owned .58 (with octagon barrel) had a half cock safety.

 

[M. De Land]

That's a good idea Richard, thanks! I haven't felt the need as a target rifle as I don't cap before pointing down range just before the shot but if it were a hunter it would surely need the half cock. Mike D.