hammer/nipple alignment

[sffar]

I've got a Navy Arms Zouave. The hammer, when dropped, falls a bit to the side of the nipple. It comes to rest over it, but it seems wrong. The hammer is moved a bit outwards as it lands. Is this acceptable? If not, is there anything that can be done about it? Should the hammer fall centered upon the nipple, and how much does it matter if the gun goes bang regardless? Seems like it could stress the lock parts. Then again, perhaps on a military rifle the idea is to split the cap.
Thanks,
Sam

 

[musketman]

I believe you would want the hammer to hit the cap squarely, otherwise you will get uneven wear on both the hammer's face and the nipple itself.

Remove the nipple and see if the tube is bent, could be as simple as replacing it to correct the problem.

It is using musket caps, right?

If it is using #11 caps, the hammer fall may be too stout for the smaller nipple and bending it with every shot.

 

[sffar]

Thanks for the reply. No, the nipple's straight. It's a musket cap nipple. Either the angle the nipple's inserted into the breech, or the shape of the hammer would have to be changed to get a centered strike. Or maybe a purposefully bent/off center nipple! The problem's not as bad with a #11 nipple, just because it's narrower so there's more room for the hammer around it, but it's still pretty far off center and still pushes the hammer outwards.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

The first thing most people think of is "bend the hammer" and that may indeed correct the problem but there is likely nothing wrong with the hammer itself. It is generally the lock inlet that should be corrected. Just taking a few thin shavings from where the top edge of the lock plate sits will bring the hammer in to center. Coat the inner surface of the lock with inletting black or lipstick to see where it contacts the wood and just very slightly relieve the high spots working only on the upper side of the lock and checking your progress often.

 

[sffar]

Thanks CoyoteJoe,
Good suggestion, though in this case the lock would need to be shimmed outwards, and maybe a little forward. The outwards movement would likely straighten out most of the problem and would not require any uglification of the stock, filling re-cut inlets and so forth.

 

[silverfox]

I would go with coyote joe on this. You said the nipple is off to the side. Most times this can be corrected by either adding a shim under the lock or removing wood under the lock. One or the other should center the hammer in your case. If it was front to back that would be a different problem and bending the hammer might be in order.
Like a cabinet builder go slow measure and check before cutting anything.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[sffar]

Thanks, silverfox.
Measure twice (at least!), cut once. I'm buying this Zouave”“a Navy/Zoli”“and the condition is a little iffy. Trying to decide if I should just resign myself to slowly fixing the bugs in it. The hammer problem's a big one, so this is very helpful as the solution seems like it'll be OK. Shimming will beef up the inlet behind the lock a bit, too, as I noticed it was cut a bit deep and went slightly into the barrel channel.
Sam

 

[musketman]

I noticed it was cut a bit deep and went slightly into the barrel channel.
Sam

Remove the lock before buying it if you can and have a look, what if the supporting wood behind the lock is in fact missing, rotted or crushed (from the lock being over-tighten)?

 

[sffar]

Will do, Musketman. Just need to figure out how to do that. I've removed the barrel, trigger, and two screws that hold the lock through the stock, but the lock wouldn't pop out. Looks like maybe there's a wedge up underneath the trigger plate that's maybe holding it in place. Judging from the overall condition I'd say the wood's not crushed or rotten, just not all that carefully cut when it was built. I guess the early Italian replicas were really a mixed bag. People like shooting these Zoli's, though, and I think it's probably worth a little handiwork to get this rifle shipshape, especially if it's actually improved/strengthened in the process.
Sam

 

[musketman]

Will do, Musketman. Just need to figure out how to do that. I've removed the barrel, trigger, and two screws that hold the lock through the stock, but the lock wouldn't pop out.

There are usually only two bolts holding the lock in.

When I encounter a stubbern lock, I use the lock's bolts themselves to help free it.

With the bolts loosen a few turns, but not all the way unscrewed out, tap the bolts inwards with a plastic mallet (or something soft) to free the lock up. Then finish unscrewing the bolts and remove the lock.

 

[longfowler]

on all of my T/C's that I converted to fire musket caps, I had to put a little washer under the hammer(around the shaft of the tumbler) to shim the hammer out so it would clear the outboard egde of the nipple. the hard part is finding a washer thin enough, I cut one out of the lid from a cap tin.

 

[sffar]

Thanks, Musketman. That worked nicely! The wood inside looks great. just along the top edge of the upper leg of the main/hammer spring the wood's cut a little deep and through, but only a very little bit. Altogether it looks perfectly sound. The lock looks to be in great shape. You can see a bit of rubbing on the tumbler(?) where the hammer was moving sideways at the end of the throw. But, I can see moving the lock out just 1/32+" or so makes a big improvement. Replacing the after market nipple with the another musket nipple that probably was original and is a tiny bit shorter helps even more. Hammer's still not centered, but is much better and now leaves clearance for a cap and does not move sideways. I'll have to figure out how to shim the lock out. Maybe a thin metal sheet cut to fit or some bedding compound or something.
All you guys”“you're help's much appreciated!
The only other real concern with this Zouave is some tool marks on two of the three lands from about 1/2" to 1 1/4" from the muzzle. I think they're deep enough that they won't completely go away, and they're perpendicular to the bore, but perhaps some bore paste will help smooth them out. Maybe they wont effect the accuracy much anyway. Remains to be seen how the gun will shoot. Soon as it warms up a few degrees I'll give it a whirl.
Sam

 

[Mad Professor]

Why the need for musket caps? I've 5 TCs and all work flawlessly with #11 caps. as do my lymans, and charles daly.

 

[silverfox]

Try PRB in your Zoave. Mine was better with RB than Minnies and kicked a lot less to. It was a lot of fun untill I got my Enfield and it shoots Minnies into cloverleafs. Gave the Zoav away to my brother as he had always wanted it to hang over the fireplace.
You can shim with broken toothpicks or cereal box cardboard.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[sffar]

I hear I might be looking at PRB after trying the heavy minnies”“ people say it's a boomer. As for accuracy, it remains to be seen! I've heard some good reports about Zouave accuracy, too.
The washer sounds like a good idea, and I'll try that if it seems the lock needs to get moved too far. Combining the two might be just the thing.

 

[musketman]

I've heard some good reports about Zouave accuracy, too.

My Zouave likes the old style minie ball (Lyman Bullet #575213) and it shoots great using 80 grains of FFg with alox bullet lube.

I could hit a Reader's Digest at 110 yards with it, and that's the small print edition. :wink: :grin:

 

[Grey Hawk]

I've been busted, I'm in the dog house, my wife read the header and now thinks this is really one of those sex sites :shake:

I will try to explain about nipples and Ball bags...she just don't get it :youcrazy:

Grey Hawk

 

[Keppy]

I didn't want to start another thread on this subject and don't want to hijack it either. But also have that problem. :surrender:

I have the same problem with my rifle also. Except I have a two barrels for the same stock. Also a different brand than yours. I bought a GM IBS barrel. The hammer strikes to the side and not center. I think my best solution is to get another hammer and fit it to the GM barrel. The original barrel of course is prefect. I suppose I could try the washer thing but it rubs the side of the nipple without a cap on.
:thumbsup: