Hammer Wobble

[centershot]

Hello Guys,

I was able to con, ahh, err, I mean con-vince an old friend to sell me his flintlock after he quit hunting deer last year. Nothing fancy mind you, it's an old TC .50 Caliber Renegade, much the same rifle that I owned forty years ago. He had grown weary of the "sometimes yes-sometimes no" ignition and retired the rifle years ago. I recognized the symptoms he described and. thanks to this forum, I knew that all was not lost. I told him what was needed (New frizzen and hammer from Ox-Yoke and some real flints, not those sawn agates that TC markets). He didn't want anything to do with it and agreed to sell me the rifle (Yay!).

I bought the parts and picked up some large black English flints from Track and set to work. The first thing I did was stone the bottom of the frizzen where it contacted the spring, pretty ragged edge there. Then installed the frizzen and tried moving it fore and aft, nice and smooth but with authority on the "open" stroke. OK. The hanner was next. Once I placed the new hammer on the shaft, I discovered that it was a loose fit, even with the screw tightened all the way down. It wobled a little side to side and fore and aft, about 1/8". I removed the hammer and mikied the hole and also the original, .004" difference. EEK! For those that have done this, what did you use to shim that up?

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Hello Guys,

I was able to con, ahh, err, I mean con-vince an old friend to sell me his flintlock after he quit hunting deer last year. Nothing fancy mind you, it's an old TC .50 Caliber Renegade, much the same rifle that I owned forty years ago. He had grown weary of the "sometimes yes-sometimes no" ignition and retired the rifle years ago. I recognized the symptoms he described and. thanks to this forum, I knew that all was not lost. I told him what was needed (New frizzen and hammer from Ox-Yoke and some real flints, not those sawn agates that TC markets). He didn't want anything to do with it and agreed to sell me the rifle (Yay!).

I bought the parts and picked up some large black English flints from Track and set to work. The first thing I did was stone the bottom of the frizzen where it contacted the spring, pretty ragged edge there. Then installed the frizzen and tried moving it fore and aft, nice and smooth but with authority on the "open" stroke. OK. The hanner was next. Once I placed the new hammer on the shaft, I discovered that it was a loose fit, even with the screw tightened all the way down. It wobled a little side to side and fore and aft, about 1/8". I removed the hammer and mikied the hole and also the original, .004" difference. EEK! For those that have done this, what did you use to shim that up?

That .004 slop will for sure make it wobble. Shims will help, but getting them in is the trick. What I have done to help some of the issue, is to anneal the hammer bottom only. Then place the hammer on a good vice or anvil and peen the hole, folding the square sides inward. Be carful not to go wider than the screw will cover. It is ugly, and something some guys would not do, but, If ya can't see it and it works, that is the way I vote.
Good luck.
Larry

 

[wiscoaster]

Hello Guys,

.... The hanner was next. Once I placed the new hammer on the shaft, I discovered that it was a loose fit, even with the screw tightened all the way down. It wobled a little side to side and fore and aft, about 1/8". I removed the hammer and mikied the hole and also the original, .004" difference. EEK! For those that have done this, what did you use to shim that up?

Sorry, but I think you need to do a little more studying up on what makes a flint lock work and its proper disassembly and reassembly. First of all, it's not a "hammer". Second of all, it's not held in place by the screw. The cock is held in place by friction fit to the tumbler shaft to which it's attached. If the shaft isn't seated all the way into the cock there will be a wobble of the cock. I had a similar problem of cock wobble on my Sea Service pistol and I had to put the lock in a vise to completely seat the cock onto the tumbler shaft using some very considerable pressure to "squeeze" it into place. If the tumbler shaft isn't even with the outside of the cock then it isn't properly seated.

 

[rich pierce]

As mentioned above peening can help. It’s probably good for a couple hundred shots.

For a longer lasting solution I run braze into the square axle hole in the cock. After it has run but still molten I pick it up and tap it against a brick to make most of the melted braze fly out. Then file to get a snug fit with the tumbler axle as needed.

Much more work is to braze in a square, tight-fitting piece of mild steel. Then re-cut the whole square hole a little undersized. The braze line is your guide. This is a “like new” fix.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

That .004 slop will for sure make it wobble. Shims will help, but getting them in is the trick. What I have done to help some of the issue, is to anneal the hammer bottom only. Then place the hammer on a good vice or anvil and peen the hole, folding the square sides inward. Be carful not to go wider than the screw will cover. It is ugly, and something some guys would not do, but, If ya can't see it and it works, that is the way I vote.
Good luck.
Larry

Check the hammer with a file to see if it's hard or soft. Do this on the back of the hammer where it won't show. You can tell by the feel if it's hard or soft. It it's soft you won't need to anneal it. Then do like Larry says. Use a flat faced punch 3/16" or so. If you're careful on the outside like he says the punch marks will be covered by the hammer screw and the marks on the inside won't show.

I've also done as Rich mentioned above when fitting a new hammer to an old lock, mainly to get it to index right. If I drive in the square plug from the inside with some flux on it I can run some soft solder into the joint. I haven't had one come loose yet. I taper the hole so it's larger on the inside on both the plug and the new square hole in the hammer so the hammer screw won't pull the plug out.

 

[fleener]

Little did I know that the screw does not hold in place the hammer/cock. I dont think I will remove the screws and hope that the hammer/cock will stay where they are supposed to.

Wiscoaster perhaps it is you that needs to become better educated and not be an internet expert talking down to folks. Cock and hammer are both used for a flintlock.

I use shims. AL from a pop can or brass. You can hammer them down to the thickness you need and put a tapper on one end to make it fit better. Dont forget to put the screw back on.

Fleener

 

[oldramrod]

I make shims out of brass shim stock available at any true hardware store. You can cut the shim stock with a heavy pair of shears, It is available in thicknesses of .001, .002., .003, .005 , .010. I fold it so that I have two adajacent sides shimed.

 

[James Kibler]

Little did I know that the screw does not hold in place the hammer/cock. I dont think I will remove the screws and hope that the hammer/cock will stay where they are supposed to.

Wiscoaster perhaps it is you that needs to become better educated and not be an internet expert talking down to folks. Cock and hammer are both used for a flintlock.

I use shims. AL from a pop can or brass. You can hammer them down to the thickness you need and put a tapper on one end to make it fit better. Dont forget to put the screw back on.

Fleener
View attachment 369350

Cock is the proper terminology for a flintlock. Hammer is a percussion part. This has historically been the proper usage. If someone in modern times doesn't use it correctly I really don't know what to say. The drawing with labels only says that who ever put it together didn't really understand the difference or proper usage.

 

[fleener]

I know my experience is very limited in this area, so I have to rely on research and others with more knowledge than I.

"The Flintlock: Its Origin, Development, and Use" by Torsten Lenk uses both hammer and cock interchangeably.

This book is described as: A groundbreaking treatise based on fifteen years of research, Torsten Lenk's classic study of the flintlock has been acclaimed for decades as the essential book on the subject. His passion for this historic weapon was almost as remarkable as his precision and his eye for detail. From his post as Director of the Swedish Royal Armory, he traveled far and wide to inspect thousands of rare weapons stored in private collections. His illuminating volume encompasses the development of this essential hunting and fighting tool, and it is without equal as a reference for flintlock collectors, dealers, or owners—or for anyone with an interest in weapons and history.

 

[James Kibler]

Little did I know that the screw does not hold in place the hammer/cock. I dont think I will remove the screws and hope that the hammer/cock will stay where they are supposed to.

Wiscoaster perhaps it is you that needs to become better educated and not be an internet expert talking down to folks. Cock and hammer are both used for a flintlock.

I use shims. AL from a pop can or brass. You can hammer them down to the thickness you need and put a tapper on one end to make it fit better. Dont forget to put the screw back on.

Fleener
View attachment 369350

Cock is the proper terminology for a flintlock. Hammer is a percussion part. This has historically been the proper usage. If someone in modern times doesn't use it correctly I really don't know what to say. The drawing with labels only says that who ever put it together didn't really understand the difference or proper usage.

 

[James Kibler]

Really, it matters little what Lenk says. In my experience, these academic researchers were not always the most accurate in their descriptions. I've not seen any period descriptions of a hammer in use for a flintlock. Think about it... What's it doing? Smashing a cap like hammer.

I recall having this same discussion with Wallace and the definitive answer is hammer only refers to a percussion lock part. Trust me this is the widespread opinion of those versed in this stuff...

 

[fleener]

Little doubt that in today's world here in the USA that a cock and a hammer are typically two different things. I have seen in historical records where the frizzen was also called a hammer amongst other things. The American Society of Arms Collectors also will at times use hammer for what we today call a cock.

I have never met Wallace, and I am not familiar with the breadth of his historic background to know the extent of his knowledge.