Hard lead in a smoothbore?

[damron]

with my two smoothie 12ga guns with bead sight i cant tell an accuracy difference between 6 BHN and 15 BHN balls.One is choked improved the other cylinder bore.My sight down the barrel smooth bore accuracy standards are probably no as stringent as some others but 1.5" for five at 25 yards is fine for my task.
Same patching works for both though the harder Wheel-weight bullet with antimony is a bit larger.When comparing alloy you have to consider the size change as a variable that is also important.


George

 

[hanshi]

Yes, a patch does serve to seal in much/most of the burning powder products. This can be proven by firing a ball patched and one unpatched in a rifle. I disagree, however, that a patch seals 100% or even near that. Be that as it may, a patch in a smoothbore makes a BIG difference.

In my own case I use a 1/2" cushion over powder and then the patched ball. With .600" lead and .605" WW ball, a .010" patch works well. With a .590" WW ball a .020" patch works well and is easier to load. With .600" & .605" ball a .010" patch loads with protest but is quite doable (with a wood rod) in a clean bore. After that first shot it still can be done but is very stubborn and requires care in seating. If the bore is wiped after each shot the seating is a bit easier. At 50 yards I fired an 8 shot group with that .605 x .010" of just 2.5". That's better than I can shoot.

 

[roundball]

You sound like you have enough experience with smoothbores to know that you don't need to run out and buy some "system" to get a simple PRB combo to hit your target consistently...our forefathers certainly didn't buy some modern "system" to figure out what their guns like best for one simple reason...it's not rocket science.

If I had to depend on some recommended "system" or "formula" to figure out something as basic and simple as what PRB combination repeatedly puts holes into a bullseye the best, I'd take up knitting.
As you already know, all you might need is a couple different size balls, maybe 2-3 different size patches, go to the range, done.

Enjoy your new smoothbore...
:thumbsup:

 

[Dphar]

In a little over four months from now I should be the proud owner of a North Star Early English trade gun.
I’ve got lazy in my old age and will probably never cast a ball for the .50 or the .36 unless the cost of store-bought swaged ones gets ridiculous.
.600s on the other hand”¦.
None are available locally, and ordering them, even if they were cheaper, could get cost prohibitive in a hurry. So it looks like it’s time to get back into the casting game.
I did an inventory of what I had left over from the first time around in the lead department this morning. I was surprised how much there was. Because I used to cast for center fires as well as muzzleloaders, I have as much, if not more, hard lead than pure lead.
I know the importance of soft lead in a rifle, but really, when there is no rifling involved, how important is the hardness of the lead. The only other bullets I will be casting are .58 Minnie balls. These, obviously must be soft lead but any .600 round balls will be easy to distinguish from everything else when I mine the backstop.
So”¦”¦
Should smoothbores be pure lead only, or can good results be had from some melted down 32-20 bullets and reclaimed shot?

Hardened lead was the standard for hunting heavy game in rifles and smoothbores.

Read "The Sporting Rifle and its Projectiles" By Forsythe

Even John Taylor used hardened balls on a 10 bore when he ran out of breechloader ammo in the 1930s.
This is in "Pondoro".

If people read history, something besides American shooting, they will find that hardened lead was often used and in fact pure lead is nearly useless for shooting the larger species.
Turner Kirkland shot and African Elephant with a heavily loaded 4 bore using pure lead balls and penetration was insufficient.
Had he read Forsythe or Baker or even John Taylor he would have realized that the American shooters hang up on pure lead is a very poor choice for large game and might have resulted in the Elephant being killed with a ML rather than being wounded then shot by the PH.
Dan

 

[tg]

"I'm just pure and simple cheap no speculation there! When i cull a doe off of the orchard behind me later this year you can bet i'll be using a 100% lead RB.Why take a chance."

I guess I missed something, when hunting a Deer what choice aside from a soft lead PRB would be taking a "chance" on killing a Deer?

 

[nkbj]

Just maybe... the bp particulates hitting the patch cloth (think filter) may do some sealing.

 

[damron]

"I'm just pure and simple cheap no speculation there! When i cull a doe off of the orchard behind me later this year you can bet i'll be using a 100% lead RB.Why take a chance."

I guess I missed something, when hunting a Deer what choice aside from a soft lead PRB would be taking a "chance" on killing a Deer?

the "chance" was a bad joke.
Deer are thin skinned and die easily so a .600 or bigger ball will be fine hard or not.But now that i think of it i may use Linotype with my .690 ball mold to make it bigger.
George

 

[damron]

Just maybe... the bp particulates hitting the patch cloth (think filter) may do some sealing.

With a 12 ga caplock with .690 ball and .015 patch with 90g FF Goex the patch shreds to pieces.When i use pants denim it is uncut and clean but i have to pound it down the bore.When i tried a tight fitting 12ga fiber wad with the .015 patch it cut a ring on the patch almost though and shot as bad as no wad at all and didn't appear to be "sealing". I wish i could figure it out.Balls were pure lead and also 15 BHN scrap and both acted the same way

George

 

[roundball]

Just maybe... the bp particulates hitting the patch cloth (think filter) may do some sealing.

Now that an interestingly fresh idea I'd not heard before...made me go take a closer look at some patch photos I have.
In looking at them more closely there may well be some particulate matter clogging up near the circumference, reference the photo below.

The patches show a scorched center from the fire, then a clean band of material, then a thin circumference ring of dark color that's located immediately below the faint white circumference band. (the white circumference band being the blanched area where the compression of the material against the bore walls has forced all the lube out of that area).
So something is causing that thin dark line to be under the blanched band...and it probably is particulate matter...BUT...is it particulate matter from the active shot in question...OR...is it particulate matter "fouling" from the previous shot being wiped off the bore walls at PRB seating time.

Personally I believe it’s being wiped off the bore walls from the previous shot, and the reason I think that is because if it was from the active shot, there should be additional particulate matter clogging all of the bottom of the patch material...but all there is on the fire side of the patch, is the little scorched area in the centers.
However, regarding the subject of 'patch sealing', any particulate matter clogged around the circumference just under the blanched compression band, would seem to help the gas sealing from below.

(Patches in the photo: top row is fireside, bottom row is ball side)

 

[rabjr]

I can tell you I shoot clover leaf groups at 50 yards with my custom .12ga smoothbore using harden lead .715 balls. That same gun/load setup has taken 3 deer to date with those same balls. My load used is 82 gr of FF Swiss, a bear greased fiber wad, bear greased .015 patch and a .715 roundball. The three shots on deer were 35 yards (8 point), 60 yards (forkhorn), 75 yards (big Doe). All three died where they stood. :thumbsup:

 

[Roy]

:grin: