Hard Wax Round Balls

[roundball]

Looking for someone who might be interested in experimenting with me using some hard wax round balls.

If so PM your mailing address, I'll send you a couple hundred of the hard wax bullets I have if you'll melt and repour them as round balls in one of the following sizes: .440/.490/.530/.570/.600, then keep half for yourself to test with.
Reference pohoto = hard wax .429 bullets with .440s and a .45cal/255grn maxi-hunter side x side.

 

[George Holton]

how hard? Penetration?

 

[roundball]

how hard? Penetration?

I have no scientific way to describe the hardness to you but they are very hard and some practical examples will paint the picture pretty well.

1) I cannot make a mark in one with my thumbnail

2) I can, slowly, firmly and repeatedly bite down on one over and over until I can finally work down through it and bite it in half;

3) The day I got them, I tested the fit by patching one and starting in into a .45cal barrel...had to use a short starter, making the pint that it is not soft enough to change shape easily...then seated it down.

4) It was so tight down bore that I couldn't blow it out with a 6HP air compressor & 30gal tank of 140psi air. So I used a ball remover...screwed it into the wax bullet the same way I would a lead ball, and it pulled right out just like a lead ball.

5) The wax is so hard, that the ball puller screw bored a perfect "screw' hole into the wax, and after I removed it, had not disrupted the wax at all...ie: not a hint that the wax was stretching under the strain of the tight pull...got it out, then had to unscrew the rod from the bullet, leaving a perfect threaded hole in it's nose that made it look like a .45cal hollow point bullet.


As far as penetration, I was just experimenting with accuracy that day at the range and only had paper plates on thick cardboard at 25yds, which they zipped right through of course...I guarantee we would not want to be hit with one.

 

[Nifeman]

Hey Roundball, I'd be interested in testing a few of them in .45 cal...Bud

 

[roundball]

Hey Roundball, I'd be interested in testing a few of them in .45 cal...Bud

Me too...but I don't have any...... :wink:

Looking for someone who might be interested in experimenting with me using some hard wax round balls.

If so PM your mailing address, I'll send you a couple hundred of the hard wax bullets I have if you'll melt and repour them as round balls in one of the following sizes: .440/.490/.530/.570/.600, then keep half for yourself to test with.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Great!

I'll try 0.600"s!

 

[roundball]

Done...and responded to your PM...thanks
:thumbsup:

 

[Slamfire]

What happens to yore mold, can you clean it easily?

 

[gordy]

Roundball, what is the goal you are seeking? I used to pour wax bullets for my Colt .45s SAs and the primer would zip them out at a fair clip. Used to be able to practice in the back yard without disturbing the neighbors. I don't remember the mix, but they were hard.

 

[roundball]

I have no idea...I don't cast my own balls and it's why I was asking if anyone was interested in trying this with me...I'll supply the material if they can melt and mold the balls

 

[roundball]

Similar interest...I know that the fast draw folks in the cowboy action shooters group use them for practice as they're safer & cheaper than real bullets.

I wondered if something similar might be had for muzzleloaders...for example, I go to the range almost every weekend, but it's mostly just for the fun of shooting...dots, tin cans, etc at 25-50 yards...I don't do serious long range stuff...just like to shoot a lot.

If hard wax balls will be accurate enough at 25yds to knock over tin cans with 20-25grns Goex 3F, and the bullets are only $20/1000 delivered (I assume balls would be roughly the same), thats a lot of fun shooting for very little cost.

And worse case, if it doesn't pan out, it will have at least been another hands-on experience in the world of muzzleloading...

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

And worse case, if it doesn't pan out, it will have at least been another hands-on experience in the world of muzzleloading...

Haha - LOVE it :thumbsup: !

You know, sort WAY off the topic, but that's how the game of darts was invented ... English archers (Longbowmen) took their bows inside during cold weather (or in relaity, didn't shoot outside :haha: ) and made minatures of them for indoor use ...

 

[roundball]

I have already uncased my .62cal rifle in anticipation of a successful .600 wax ball manufacturing project.


Just remember who got you started when you make your first million !
:grin:

 

[broknaero]

Wonder what one of those lil wax balls do to a squirrel at 25 to 50 yards. Will they shoot as accurate as lead?

 

[roundball]

"...Will they shoot as accurate as lead?..."

That's what we're trying to find out.

Your question might then be determined based upon their weight...they are so light I'm not sure what energy they might have at 25yds.

So the sequence is:

1) Can hard wax be melted & poured into RB moulds to produce consistent quality hard wax RBs?
(ie: maybe cowboy wax bullets are swaged/cut)

2) Will they be accurate when used as a "PWRB" in a rifled or smoothbore muzzleloader?

3) If they're accurate at 25yds, would they have the energy necessary for clean kills on small game?

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

So the sequence is:

1) Can hard wax be melted & poured into RB moulds to produce consistent quality hard wax RBs?

Well, my results started out GREAT and then got funky. I lubed the Lee mold with Pam cooking spray with olive oil which is my favorite release agent for epoxy work when working on uhhhh, modern rifles and old boats. I used a cat food tin on an eletric stove on 2.5 to 3. It took a good 10-minutes to melt 20 of them and once melted it's consistency felt a little thinner than a liquid epoxy mix, maybe more like maple syrup. Next time I will put a flat pan under the cat food tin, as wax dripped down the edge and started hitting the stove. Maybe the double-boiler method and warming in hot water would be better?

Back to my Waxenstein experiments, courtesy of Roundball ... The 1st one molded looked and dropped great! So did the 2nd one, woo hoo - we're on a roll! Then with the 3rd one, I had to start over, as the wax cooled off once I was halfway pouring #3. Then another #3 attempt was successful. #4 was like #3, but a big block of wax hardened or 'something' about 2/3rds of the way through the pour and I couldn't complete the pour.

Attempt #5 failed as did ALL other attempts afterwards. I cleaned the mold, re-lubed, tried no lube, put the wax temp up, put the temp down ... as much as you can on an electric stove - but with no succuess .

Note that all during these failed attempts, the wax, though melted, felt 'thicker' and I just couldn't get its original viscosity back. I wonder if I overheated it when I wernt up to "3" on the stove ... ??

GOOD NEWS:
For a mere sample of 3 pieces, 2 weighed 22.1 grains and the other 22.3 grains. The failed #4, which was part hollow, was 17.0 grains. A 'blank' 45 cal wax bullet as Roundball sent me weighed 16.2 grains. This would be COOL if we can get it to work, i.e., molding and shooting, in a smoothbore, as he paid $20 for 1000 (45cal) I think it was, so one could possibly make about 670
wax roundballs in 600 size for that price.

The picture with the mold doesn't show it, but a round wax 'plug' about the size of a BB blocked the fill port and created havoc on the 5th attempt. Whatever the solution is, I think the temperature will be critical ... and we need to find out why the melted wax got 'thicker' as I proceeded.

So .. whaddya think?

 

[roundball]

Wow !! You've already proven the basics...that the same approach for "runnin' ball" works for "runnin' hard wax".
:hatsoff:

Consistency was surprisingly good on those first three.

If / When the issue of 'thickening' is resolved, I'll bet the whole process will settle right down and flow smoothly.

I guess the thickening problem didn't occur when switching from Pam to water...so it seems like it would either be from "cooking to long", or from cooling below an optimum temperature?

Great progress and a great update...can't wait for the next "batch results"!
:thumbsup:

 

[FishDFly]

As you heat up the plastic to melt it, you maybe removing one or more of the added ingredients of the plastic which is added to make it flow, pourability.

Might consider melting the plastic outside, who knows what may be coming off the plastic as it heats up. Any idea what the "flash point" of the plastic is, temperature at which it will catch fire? If it catches fire, do not try to put it out with water.

roundball, can you get an MSDS sheet? It will list the hazards associated with the plastic and it's ingredients.

Thanks

Richard

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

* As you heat up the plastic to melt it ...
* Might consider melting the plastic outside ...
* Coming off the plastic as it heats up ...
* Any idea what the "flash point" of the plastic ...
* Hazards associated with the plastic ...

Rich:

Good point about perhaps there being some 'lubricant' that is being removed via my heating process, but this product (to me) is more wax based than anything. Even the website for the base cowboy bullet we're melting them down from has them listed as being a 'wax compound'.

I do agree that there is some binder mateiral or component in there. But I don't think it's plastic per se, these are indeed more wax bullets or balls. It melted and cooled like wax and though much harder than a candle, for example, if you rubbed one on glass it leaves the waxy streak as residue.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

FYI: I called C&R Wax Bullets, who provides them to the SASS guys. They could only tell me that is indeed a wax and that it should be melted @ 300 degrees-F.