Hard Wax Round Balls

[mommicked]

Any "penetration tests" yet? Neat stuff.

 

[arcticap]

Gee, the mention of melted plastic made me wonder whether using glue stick material out of a hot glue gun would work for casting balls? Does that type of craft glue adhere to metal? :hmm:


Looking at the hardening problem with attempt #4 leads me to ask if the mold was heated up or kept warm at all for the pouring of the wax? If not, maybe the mold needs to be placed in hot water or heated up another way before the pour.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Looking at the hardening problem with attempt #4 leads me to ask if the mold was heated up or kept warm at all for the pouring of the wax? If not, maybe the mold needs to be placed in hot water or heated up another way before the pour.

FWIW I made some more up last night and used a small countertop toaster oven set to 300 degrees. It worked perfectly! I made up a dozen more 600 wax balls in minutes and they too weighed in @ 22.1 to 22.3 grains each, so to me, the weight is pretty darn consistent!

The problem as I see it is more so related to that of wax versus lead. Meaning, it takes 5-10x as long for the wax to firm up in the mold before you can 'drop' the ball. I tried putting the filled mold (upside-down) under running room temp water from the faucet and this greatly cut the 'wait' time. I still did have a few fas;e pours, like attempt #4 reported above.

Articap: I thought about, but did not try placing the mold into a pan of HOT water while prepping for the next pour. I'll try that tonight and will report back here. One good thing I did find is that water does not impeded the wax molding process as it does when using lead :shocked2: .

Testing these wax roundballs out tomorrow! Range report to follow. I will place a heavy blanket on the BACK of my 25-yard range target frame in an attempt to capture shot ones for photo evidence .

Oh yeah, a friend says there is a European Dualing Associaton that uses replica flint arms with wax balls or paintgun balls for their monthly 'shoots'.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

I like the glue stick idea.

 

[cheatherly]

Would the wax need to be melted? What I mean is, do you think it could be swaged with the mold?

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Maybe something like this would work if you could find one:
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...d=18&subId=126&styleId=414&partNum=X-552[/url]

 

[cheatherly]

I've been looking for one of those for years. Dixie Gun Works sold them back in the 70's. Newly manufactured swagers run from 500 up.

 

[ktw]

I like the glue stick idea.

Some of the guys over on the Cast Boolits forum have tried hot glue gun casting for practice-in-the-garage pistol bullets with some success. Go to the following link (Special Projects section of the Cast Boolits forum) and search on the term "glue"
[url] http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17[/url]

-ktw

 

[the Black Spot]

i've been kicking around the idea of trying silicone II caulking to fill the bullet mold and make "round caulk balls". it dries medium hard and stays rubbery. liquid nails would dry hard, but you might not get it out of the mold.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

There are endless things we can try. I have been thinking about getting a mold just for this whole thing.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Wax Roundball Test Results:

• 
  Firearm: 62cal (20 gauge) Caywood Wilson flint smoothie
  Wax roundballs: A dozen or more weighing 22.1 to 22.3 grains
  Patch: 0.010" homespun cloth
  Lube: Hoppe's BP patch lube, very slightly damp
  Range details: 25yards, shooting at a 30" tall by 24" wide target frame with new light white paper tacked to the new cardboard backing.

Results:
Shot them on a beautiful Saturday last weekend, sunny skies and great light for accurate shooting. But, my results were mixed in my 62cal.

* Tried 10grs FFFg: - couldn't see it hit anywhere; patch sailed off within 10' of the muzzle - we think the W-PRB went way low
* 20 grs FFFg: Saw the patch sail low under the target frame
* 30 grs FFFg: Same

* 40 grs FFFg: The patch sailed towards the target but the wax ball bounced off the cardboard and hit the leg of a guy 3 stations to my right :shocked2: !

* 50 grs FFFg: Saw the patch fall off right in front of the target frame and lo' and behold there was a hole in the cardboard :thumbsup: !

Tried 4 more shots @ this same charge and ended up with a 3-shot group of about 2" ... hmmmmmmm, where did the others go ? They also hit a good 14" low of my point of aim (1" black dot). But, 2 of them never made a hole in the cardboard and we know they hit it as we could see a mark. IMHO these could be dangerous with their profinity to bounce back, at these low charges.

Yes, we could have added more powder or use a lighter target backing (which would also enable them to be re-shot, but I was done with my testing. In fact, the one recovered @ 40grs could have been re-shot.

For me and my 62cal smoothie? This was a fun experiment, but one I won't pursue further. If I need to add more powder anyway, then heck, for only $8 per 100, I'm throwing lead - haha! Now for a smaller 40 or 45 rifle there might be more fun and applications, for small game or less noise - just to also enjoy the flash and kaFOOM!

I personally think the PERFECT application for these is for someone who wants to load a large 69 or larger caliber ball in a single shot flint pistol who only cares to see a hole in the target 15' or so away.

I have pictures of all above and will post - later, have been VERY busy!

 

[paulvallandigham]

I think you were being unrealistic to be expecting any kind of accuracy, much less penetration beyond 30 feet. ( 10 yards) These light projectiles are just not going to go 75 feet with any kind of force left, until you defeat the purpose of a squib load for small game, and practice by loading all that powder in the gun.

With large game, 30 feet seems awful close. However, with squirrels, both ground and tree, 30 feet is not that far for a shot. Same with rats. I realize that 10 yards is pistol shooting distance for most shooters, and you will feel odd shooting at anything with a rifle that close, but you can always reduce the size of your target. Use bottle caps, or even .22 short casings as targets. When you can hit them consistently, then you can snuff candle flames, or do other trick shots.
[url] www.chuckhawks.com/off-hand_shooting.htm[/url]

Remember the original objective was to find a QUIET squib load that would be safe to use in a back yard for practice, and fun. YOu seem to have solved that with these hot wax balls. Your unrealistic expectation is the only thing that spoiled the testing. ( Been there, done that, too, which is why I know. I am not criticizing you for the test, or your mistake: just pointing out what happened.) I put less than 5 grains of 4Fg powder behind a Lead .62 cal. PRB in a rifle, and at 25 yds, it hit a bang plate dead center, so don't underestimate the powder of even small charges of black powder. The shooter had dry balled his load, and we worked the ball forward with a small screwdriver I had, and that allowed me to put a little priming powder behind the ball. We then reinstalled his vent liner, primed the gun and he then insisted in putting the gun over his bench reast at 25 yards and aiming carefully at the center of the gong. When he hit it, everyone standing around could see the ball fly through the air, except the shooter. We were all stunned that the ball went that far, expecting it to barely fall out the muzzle. Since the shooter had been testing loads all day trying to hit that gong without success, I waited the " pregnant pause", and then dryly observed that " I think I have found out what your problem is, Don. You are using too much powder!" :rotf: :surrender: :rotf: :rotf: He glared at me, then smiled, and then began to laugh, and then the rest of the guys who witnessed the shot began to laugh, and pretty soon the whole camp was roaring with laughter. Don actually got tears in his eyes he was laughing so hard. I managed to smile only ans walked off my " stage" before I spoiled the joke. Timing is everything, even in making someone laugh.

Try those lighter loads at 10 feet to 10 yards, and see how accurate you are. The emphasis should be on quiet, not velocity. To avoid the problems with bouncing plastic balls, use a rug hung over a clothes line as a backstop, and not something solid.

 

[roundball]

Dale, I won't repeat everything we've exchanged via PT, so I'll just sum it up with a hearty "Thank You" for being willing to try and for such good range report details.

We learned some good things first hand in the process...that W-PRBs certainly can be made following the same cast lead ball process, that they really will work out of a muzzleloader, that they're very light and require a surprisingly high powder charge to start getting any accuracy at all.

Same as my range test just shooting the wax bullets like the came from the factory, in a patch...I had to get up to 40grns Goex 3F before I started getting accuray, but there was always the occasional time when I appeared to miss the target altogether...now I'm thinking it was probably occasions where the wax bullet had simply bounced back off and I didn't realize it.

Another thought I had too, was if woven cloth patches might be temporarily sticking to the wax bullets/ball, throwing them off course during separation because the balls are so light compared to a lead ball...possibly a lighter .005" patch, or a slick finish patch material would improve accuracy a bit.

Any rate, we moved the ball forward some, and many thanks to you again for your excellent effort !

:hatsoff: :hatsoff: