Harrisonburg VA 1764

[Henry Bowman]

So, I'm trying to build a flintlock styled after what my GGGGGGrandfather might have carried. He was born in 1740 in the Shenandoah valley (Augusta County, VA) and he was married in 1764 in Harrisonburg (which was then Rockingham Co.), Virginia.

Anyone have pointer toward reference material?

I understand the stock carving was simple at the time in the area - the focus being on the gun rather than the artwork aspect. I'd like to style this one to reflect what he probably carried as a young man which meant that he would have gotten it from the local area there in Rockingham County in the 1760s (give or take a few years).

I'm starting with one of Jim Kibler's Colonial kits that I bought at the CLA show last weekend. I am well pleased with the kit - plus, it's already started with the right time/area aspect.

I realize that I can't possibly match my GGGGGGreandpa's long-lost rifle but, I would like to capture the essense of what he may have carried.

Thanks in advance.

 

[rich pierce]

The 1760s are so early, with so few examples or rifles that could be from that era, and only one of them signed and dated, that one has to make or accept a lot of assumptions. The Kibler colonial rifle gets you in the neighborhood, but does not closely emulate a specific Virginia or Pennsylvania rifle, as far as I know. The book, Rifles of Colonial America volume 2 would be helpful.

Google the Faber rifle and the Woodsrunner rifle to get started on early, probably Virginia rifles.

 

[Elnathan]

http://americansocietyofarmscollect...fles-of-the-Shenandoah-Valley-B074_Gusler.pdf

Faber rifle is no. 1, Woodsrunner rifle is no. 12.

 

[Artificer]

Great Link! I found that one time, lost it and never found it again. This time I will be sure to add it to the files.

Thank you!

Gus

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Just being picky, but as a long-time resident of both Rockingham and Augusta counties here are some facts:

(1) Rockingham County was founded in 1778 so when married in 1764 your ancestor was in Augusta County.

(2) Before 1780, Harrisonburg was still known as Rocktown so your ancestor was married in Rocktown in Augusta County.

At the time, the two main centers of population in the Shenandoah Valley were Staunton and Winchester and there were competent, even fine gunmakers at both locations by the late 18th Century. If your ancestor owned a rifle, rather than the more common and affordable smooth bored gun, it would have come from one of those locations or from Pennsylvania.

 

[54ball]

There's also the Feather Gun than some say is made by the same hand as the Woodsrunner. If not by the same hand both rifles show lots of similarities.
David Keck has the Fred Miller stock pattern taken directly from the Feather Gun.
Ed Rayl has the 48" barrel pattern from the Feather.
Reaves Goering had the brass furniture.

Both the Feather and Woods Runner have rather unique Roman Nose buttstocks.

 

[54ball]

So, I'm trying to build a flintlock styled after what my GGGGGGrandfather might have carried. He was born in 1740 in the Shenandoah valley (Augusta County, VA) and he was married in 1764 in Harrisonburg (which was then Rockingham Co.), Virginia.

Anyone have pointer toward reference material?

I understand the stock carving was simple at the time in the area - the focus being on the gun rather than the artwork aspect. I'd like to style this one to reflect what he probably carried as a young man which meant that he would have gotten it from the local area there in Rockingham County in the 1760s (give or take a few years).

I'm starting with one of Jim Kibler's Colonial kits that I bought at the CLA show last weekend. I am well pleased with the kit - plus, it's already started with the right time/area aspect.

I realize that I can't possibly match my GGGGGGreandpa's long-lost rifle but, I would like to capture the essense of what he may have carried.

Thanks in advance.

I'm going to post photos of two rifles. The Faber and the Woodsrunner.
The Faber has somewhat sophisticated carving at the wrist and tang.
Both have some what simplistic cheek piece carving with the Woods runner being more Folksy...

The Faber...
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

I do believe the Kibler is more like the Faber as the Woodsrunner and Feather seem to be more Fusil like....
Call me crazy but I think the Cheek carving on the Faber is a Canoe Bow with the scroll added later or as an afterthought. :hmm:

 

[rich pierce]

Ok, you may be crazy, but the Faber is one of my faberites too.

 

[54ball]

The Woodsrunner...
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Note the crooked buttplate on the Woodsrunner. The plate is inline the the barrel....not the butt cast off. Was this a mistake? :hmm:
No matter IMHO anyone who builds a Woodsrummer inspired rifle has gotta have this feature, I mean you just gotta!
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

 

[54ball]

Gosh, I love Real Virginia Rifles!

 

[Davemuzz]

With my current ......."situation" of fixing my nose cap, I noticed that on the Farber.....likely an owner did an attempted "fix" on it.....and maybe he was in a hurry? An attack coming? :shocked2: :shocked2: :rotf:

 

[54ball]

Yep,
Most of these grand ole Kentuckies have had work done to them and a lot more recently than you might think.
Both of these guns show use and lots of it. Note how the entry thimbles are partly worn away.
:hatsoff:

 

[54ball]

The Faber is one of my faberites too.

:shocked2: :slap: :rotf:
:hatsoff:

 

[rich pierce]

The Woodsrunner rifle seems a little later than the Faber rifle to me but that might just be because it’s styling is Germanic and the Woodsrunner rifle is more English and sleek.

 

[54ball]

David Keck/Fred Miller off the original....Feather

In a lot of aspects, it looks like the "Feather" has attributes that are somewhat between the Woods Runner and the Faber.... :hmm:

 

[54ball]

The Woodsrunner rifle seems a little later than the Faber rifle to me but that might just be because it’s styling is Germanic and the Woodsrunner rifle is more English and sleek.

Rich, do you see any shadows of a Fusil, French or English?

At one time in the Older editions, RCA 118 (or 119) was attributed to Virginia as unknown. Now it's attributed Haymaker from PA. That rifle was built like a English Fowler...all the way but with a sliding box and full octagonal barrel. Very very English with the fowling guard and butt with the rounded toe. Just to be clear I'm not trying to link the 118 to these Virginia Rifles.

I do think think the 1760 card on the Woodsrunner may be a little ambitious. Early and even later Valley guns show fascinating features and I can see how they would be hard to date.

Features that most would attribute to "early rifles" like the "Step Toe" you'll see on Honakers, Sheetz, (VA) Humbles (KY), Simpson, Young (Cumberland TN) Bulls (TN,AL) well into the 19th Century.
Whats neat....Most of those makers above have some kind of link to the Valley of Virginia....

 

[rich pierce]

Rich, do you see any shadows of a Fusil, French or English?

I well know the hypothesis that the early Southern longrifle is an amalgam of English fowling pieces and jaeger rifles. My thoughts:

English rifles and fowlers of the mid 1700s have the same architecture.

We will never know why colonists preferred rifles with longer barrels than their typical contemporary European rifles. Was it poor powder quality? The need for longer range accuracy? Native American preference based on their familiarity with long barreled fowlers and trade guns? Impossible to know, because we will never find a period account stating, “longer barreled rifles are preferred, because........”

Fun to speculate, impossible to know.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Wow, thank you.
For the record, this is my first gun build. I have some relative skills: some woodworking, lots of metal work (custom bikes). I also have many years of illustration work in my past. I've got this if I can conquer my desire to rush through it.

I want to build it in the spirit of what he may have carried. It's for my own satisfaction - not trying to be anything else. It has been a very long time coming. I've long wanted to build one and hunt on the grounds my ancestors hunted in KY. Some of the land where my Augusta Co. GGGGGPa ended up is still in the family in KY. When I came upon Jim's kit at the CLA show, I just had to have it. It was close enought to the area and period - plus, I must have had 20 people that I should get one. Then, I had another ~10 people talk about Jim's kits on the way out. This will be perfect for what I intend. I've watched all his videos, took notes, and bought all the tools I lacked. Got some very old chisels in great condition at the flea market for a buck each - much better steel than what they offer today. They just need proper sharpening. The last stuff I ordered should be in tomorrow.

I almost bought RCA at the CLA show. I wish that I would have.

I've seen pictures of the Faber and the Woodsrunner before but none like those. Those are great! I also thought the Faber cheek looked like a canoe - but with some little boy peeing over the bow. That gun is surely one of my Faberites, too! (That new word is forever stuck in my head now.) I thought the Woodsrunner butt plate was that way due to a collision with some poor soul's head during battle.

What is the "Feather" I can't seem to find any good material on it.

BIG thanks for the history of the area. Those were puzzle pieces that I lacked. Any idea of the names of those gunsmiths or any pictures available of their work?

I'm so very green. What are fusils and step toes? Should I worry about them in my endeavor?

This one will be a well-used piece when I'm done. I intend to have a great time with it. Target and deer - look out! I won't be hunting with it this year but, hunting will force my patience in the build. I might even talk my wife into re-enacting some day - maybe I'll build a small caliber for her. Maybe I'll make one for each of my sons. Who knows what the future holds but, I do intend to have a great time building and shooting this one. I've sure met a lot of great folks in getting started.

Thanks, again!

 

[Elnathan]

I'm so very green. What are fusils and step toes? Should I worry about them in my endeavor?

No.

A fusil (pronounced fyu-zee, I believe) is a light smoothbore of a caliber smaller-than-musket - usually somewhere between .55 and .62. Most trade guns can be classified as fusils.

A stepped wrist is an architectural feature where there is a break or step on the lower lines of the butt. Rifles 2, 3, and 5 in the article I posted above have stepped wrists. Arguably 16 also has one, but it isn't a true step but rather a widening of the wrist. Stepped wrists are a holdover from certain schools of German rifle-making and are usually thought off as an early feature that disappeared as the Kentucky rifle matured into a distinctive weapon, but as noted above they actually persist for quite some time.

The Kibler kit isn't a fusil, and it doesn't have a stepped wrist, so you don't have to worry about them while assembling it. :v

I'd strongly recommend you get a copy of Rifles of Colonial America as soon as you can - not only will you learn more from it than you will anywhere on the web, but it is so much easier to discuss these old rifles when the participants in a conversation can refer to mutually owned books rather than try to describe things in generalities.

 

[rich pierce]

The Feather rifle has sort of a small curled feather-looking carving behind the cheekpiece. Architecture is very similar to the Woodsrunner rifle, but the buttplate is flatter.
Chambers’ Mark Silver kit is more closely inclined to the Faber rifle which is a purported Early Virginia rifle, than Kibler’s early colonial kit, but the Kibler kit requires much less work.

Just doing a shell-style carving around the tang and something Faber-ish on a Kibler colonial would give it a Southern feel.