Hatfield Plains Rifle

[Birdwatcher]

Ya, I know pics are worth a thousand words but....

...until then I just picked up a pristine, possibly unfired Hatfield plains-style rifle. .54 cal. with a narrow Kentucky-style buttstock.

Only marks are HATFIELD the lockplate and "54" on the otherwise plain and unmarked barrel. No serial numbers visible in assembled gun. Lock held in place by a single bolt.

Double-set triggers of the sort where the cocked lock cannot be fired by front trigger until it is set with the rear trigger (unlike my Davis trigger on another rifle wherein a hefty pull on the unset front trigger will fire the cocked lock).

Primitive buckhorn rear sight, silver blade front, two wedges holding the barrel in. Looks to be a patent hooked breech (if I got my terminology right.

33" blued barrel, blue steel furniture, looks to be a pewter nosecap.

Any idea when in the Hatfield Rifle Co. saga where and when this gun was made?

Thanks,

Birdwatcher

 

[Rusty_Nail]

Got any pics? Hatfield Rifles typically have the logo "Hatfield" and "Warranted" on the lock, and "Hatfield" and the caliber on the barrel. They come in 39" barrel length, and full stock without a nose plate.

If it is a Plains style, half stock rifle, then it is not the Hatfield Rifle, but a rare bird, and possibly Hatfields original design that ended up as the Austin & Halleck Mt. Rifle. I have heard of them, but have never seen, and only have the A&H version.

 

[Harms Way]

Yeah,.... I would really like to see pictures as well....

 

[Rusty_Nail]

Go to the Pedersoli link below and look at them. Davide Pedersoli bought Ted Hatfields designs to his designs, but only makes the Hawken in Percussion models, no flinters.

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_34/rifles-hawken.html

 

[Rusty_Nail]

...rights to his designs..

 

[George T.]

If it is like the ones on the link it is a fine looking rifle! Geo. T.

 

[DEWB]

Hatfield did make a halfstock that they called there mountain rifle. I saw one a few years ago at a show in a .50. If I remember right it was a flint. Nice looking rifle but thats about all I know about it. I beleive it was made in the U.S. and had good parts. I tried to buy it but the guy didn't want to sell.

 

[Birdwatcher]

I won't get time to take/post pics for a couple of days but apart from the plainer wood and a pewter-looking nosecap on mine it appears to be of the same production run as this one I found on another forum. From the description the one in the photo is also unmarked on the outside except for just the same two stamps (HATFIELD on the lock, 54 on the barrel)...

(I don't believe Claude allows URL's else I'd post it)

From what I understand all Hatfield's ain't identical. Ted Hatfield apparently began in the 1970's and later sold out to both Pedersoli and a short lived US outfit called the Missouri River Rifle Works.

Quality apparently varied from very good; the best having Green River Barrels and L&R locks, to middling fair to poor with imported components.

Further, it would appear that the Missouri River Rifle Works product, though very good, was undersold by the Pedersoli version hence the short life of that concern.

I'm guessing that I have either an original Ted Hatfield or a Missouri River. I'd think that a Pedersoli would be so marked and have import stamps. Also, the tail of the lockplate on mine, like the one in the pic, is tapered in form and bears a couple of incised lines after the manner of a Siler lock, rather than the rounded locks on the Pedersolis.

Also from what I can gather, the original narrow, roman-nosed stock form I have kicks like a mule, I dunno that Pedersoli would copy that.

If mine has a Green River Barrel and a L&R lock, would these have identifying marks anywhere?

Birdwatcher

 

[Birdwatcher]

Seems like whenever they were making these things they used the same buttstock form for both longrifles and plains rifles.

It does make for a nice-looking rifle I'll admit.

 

[Rusty_Nail]

The Ped. Kentucky Rifle has the rounded lock plate, kinda like a TC but smaller. It actually has the Ped. pistol lock on it. I found that out when I tried it on a perc. Ky. Pistol.

However, If you look at the Pedersoli Frontier Rifle or Carbine on the link below, they too have the pointed style lock.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_36/rifles-frontier.html

And the below is an RPL#6 Hatfield Lock made by L&R Locks. I installed it on a Perc. Hatfield Rifle, and sold last Thurs. to a Gentleman on this site. Hopefully, I will hear about the delivery today!

 

[Carl Fowler III]

Real shame Pedersoli only makes em in percussion...if they had em in flint I would definitely pick one up! :idunno:

 

[Rusty_Nail]

Closest you'll find now in flint, if you can find one, is the A&H Fancy Grade Mt. Rifle, and one without the maple in the Lyman GPR.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Pretty sure I can post pics tomorrow, but in the meantime an example of timely response to their customer base by L&R....

Me....

Sirs,

I have recently come into possession of a modern reproduction percussion half-stock .54 cal. plains-style rifle of unknown vintage. The lock is marked with the single word HATFIELD, the otherwise unmarked barrel with the number 54 stamped on the barrel above the lock.

I understand that L&R provided the locks for at least some Hatfield rifles. Are there any identifying marks that would show that the rifle I
have has an L&R lock?

Thanks,

Them...

Hello Mike

Yes L&R supplied a very limited number of locks that were used on some hatfield rifles.If it is an L&R it will be stamped on the the inside of the
lock plate right in the middle with L&R.If it does not have that then it is
not one of ours.

Thank You
Tim Thompson

Pretty cool that they would respond so quick to a general inquiry.

Birdwatcher

 

[Rusty_Nail]

:haha: Tom and Bill Cox are L&R Locks. Not sure if there is anybody else. If so, I have never had contact.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Pics...

First the whole rifle, a graceful piece to look at anyhoo, and whoever did the brass tacks knew the value of understatement....

Birdwatcher

 

[Birdwatcher]

The lock, not stamped L&R.

I hoping someone here can guess the probable origin, imported or otherwise.

On this pic you can see the only two stamps visible anywhere on the rifle; HATFIELD and 54....

The lock innards, which I'm hoping lend a clue as to point of manufacture. Is this a good lock?

...and this, never seen a brass plate set between lock and stock before.

And note the cast triggerguard, hastily finished and not even a little bit inlet...

Birdwatcher

 

[Birdwatcher]

Production rather than custom-class inletting...

Anyone recognize this breech and/or have a clue as to origin/quality?

Other than "54" nary a mark visible on the barrel...

Birdwatcher

 

[Birdwatcher]

Maybe the muzzle can lend a clue as to the point of origin of the barrel.

Is this the dreaded button rifling?

Is that particular irregular pattern indicative of a certain maker or origin?

Thanks for all this,

Birdwatcher

 

[hanshi]

"Button" rifling is not a type of rifling; it is simply the method by which the bore is rifled - a carbide "button" is forced through the bore until the desired groove depth is attained, almost a sort of forging process. Normally button rifled bores are just a tad shallower in groove depth which is neither here nor there.

The rifle looks pretty good to me and should be a fine shooter. It looks like the old A&H rifles which are no longer made.

 

[Zonie]

I can't say about the "dreaded button rifling" but the muzzle crown does have the dreaded sharp corners that can cut and tare patches as their loaded.

Based on the photos I'd say this is a parts gun, made from whatever parts were on hand at the moment. It was not made by a major gun-making factory.

Call me grumpy but I really hate to see trigger guard castings that still have the parting line visible.