Having a Smoothie Trade Gun Built got question?

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I forever been into shooting percussion and flintlock rifles and have a solid collection or full custom builds, but never has a desire to own a smoothie flinter. Thanks to the Black Powder Maniac Shooters videos I been watching now I realize I need one and just committed to having one custom built. Walnut 20 gauge 36' barrel in all steel. What I am having a hard time deciding is to go with a rear sight or just the front one. I grew up hunting deer for a while with modern shotgun smoothbore with just a bead shooting slugs so its nothing new. But I am also a stickler for accuracy.

I guess my biggest concern is how often are guys told they cannot compete in smoothbore matches with a rear sight. The whole reason I am getting one is well I don't have one and I want to be able to compete in smoothbore class, as well as flint, and percussion categories when I got to events to maximize my time. Most fliers for events just say iron sights only with patched round balls. Any "INSIGHT" haha would be great.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

I built a 58 caliber smoothbore with a rear sight. They were common back then and I think were known as smooth rifles. Like you, I like the rear sight. Once I figured out the load and sight setting I wanted I indexed the rear sight to the barrel with a light center punch mark on each. That way, if I go to a match that doesn't allow a rear sight I'll just knock it out.

 

[tenngun]

The rear sight makes it easier for me to shoot them, lots of shooters more then match my groups without a rear sight.
Historically many fusils were made with them and about ten percent of known trade guns had a rear sight added.
Carolina trade guns came with a rear sight but this would disappear on later trade guns
Smooth rifles almost always had them
I like them
Have one without and happy with it

 

[Rob M.]

Rear sights are great ....until your eyes get bad , like mine , and ya can't see the rear sight anymore !! LOL ... The rear sight helps a bunch on accuracy at extended ranges of the smooth bore . If you have it dovetailed in just mark with chisel the rear sight position on the barrel and carry a brass rod in your pouch . If you want to compete in a smoothbore competition just tap out your rear sight ...I just shot in woods walks and against rifles so.never bothered me ....best of luck

 

[French Colonial]

Quite a few smoothbore matches do not allow a rear sight, this really is not an issue. Once you get to know your smoothy you will know how much of the barrel you need to see (elevation) and you will know where the front sight needs to be in relation to the rear tang screw (windage).

This will take a several shots and a good memory (write it down) and the distances these matches are held at generally 50 yards is a long shot so after awhile you will not even need the rear sight.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Thanks all I have decided to go with a rear sight dovetailed in so I can remove it if needed or wanted off.

 

[waksupi]

In this area, no rear sights allowed. Put away your other guns, and shoot the smoothbore for a year with just the front sight. You will find they are just as accurate as you can hold them. The whole breech of the gun is the rear sight, and it is up to you to build the muscle memory of how to use it properly.

 

[Mowich]

Thats right you don't need a rear sight. If you need to then file a line in the center of the tang or use a domed tang screw with the slot aimed at the front sight.
One time at a canoe in Rondevous across the Snake River and up the Palouse River the amm guys had a steel plate up on the canyon wall none of the rifled guys could hit the plate but my gun did with no rifling, no rear sight.

 

[Pete453]

Rear sight really isn't necessary if you do as Waksupi says. I did the same when I finished my trade gun and got pretty good with it. I could hit my own hand from 50 yds without much trouble, and 75 yds in decent light wasn't much trouble. Offhand.
I had the same thoughts about the accuracy until I saw someone shooting one that really knew his gun, it was eye opening!
Try it without, you can easily add one later.

 

[Kansas Kid]

When I booshway or set up a smooth bore / trade gun match it is no rear sight. Do as the last few post suggests and don’t look back. Fast reliable ignition is more important than a rear sight.

 

[Rat]

Well, a rear sight does make a difference. I have one on my Brown Bess. However, you can compete in a rifle match any day of the week with a smooth bore, and a smoothie with a rear sight will be competitive with the rifles. With a load a smooth bore likes, it will shoot about as well as a rifle at 50 yards. Most of those (all of them?) shoots are not off the bench, that also levels the playing field between rifle and smoothie. So don't worry about not shooting with the other smooth bores, or knocking your sights in and out. Just shoot in the rifle match.

 

[Celt5494]

Well, a rear sight does make a difference. I have one on my Brown Bess. However, you can compete in a rifle match any day of the week with a smooth bore, and a smoothie with a rear sight will be competitive with the rifles. With a load a smooth bore likes, it will shoot about as well as a rifle at 50 yards. Most of those (all of them?) shoots are not off the bench, that also levels the playing field between rifle and smoothie. So don't worry about not shooting with the other smooth bores, or knocking your sights in and out. Just shoot in the rifle match.
View attachment 297666

Nice Maduro!

 

[tenngun]

I do think it unfair for matches to ban rear sights. We know even northwest guns were having rear sights added back in the day. Smooth rifles normally came with them. Rear sights were seen on smooth bores back to the sixteenth century.
So in an historic match a shooter should not be penalized for having an historic gun.
However we have to play by the rules , set up our own shoots, or go home, tilting at windmills or whining about rules is mostly a waste of time..
But I do get a chuckle from those who tell you you don’t need a rear sight but then don’t want to compleat against a gun with a rear sight

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

This gun im having made will have a removeable tang peep sight. 2 screws on 2 screws off that way if i decide i dont want it later there is no dovetail cut in the barrel.

 

[paulab]

Well, a rear sight does make a difference. I have one on my Brown Bess. However, you can compete in a rifle match any day of the week with a smooth bore, and a smoothie with a rear sight will be competitive with the rifles. With a load a smooth bore likes, it will shoot about as well as a rifle at 50 yards. Most of those (all of them?) shoots are not off the bench, that also levels the playing field between rifle and smoothie. So don't worry about not shooting with the other smooth bores, or knocking your sights in and out. Just shoot in the rifle match.
View attachment 297666

Was that turd hard to light??

 

[Rat]

Was that turd hard to light??

Nope, she fire right up. Stayed lit, smoked plenty good. But...it does....kind of look...like...a......!!!!

 

[Rat]

I do think it unfair for matches to ban rear sights. We know even northwest guns were having rear sights added back in the day. Smooth rifles normally came with them. Rear sights were seen on smooth bores back to the sixteenth century.
So in an historic match a shooter should not be penalized for having an historic gun.
However we have to play by the rules , set up our own shoots, or go home, tilting at windmills or whining about rules is mostly a waste of time..
But I do get a chuckle from those who tell you you don’t need a rear sight but then don’t want to compleat against a gun with a rear sight

I agree, and considering the work to put on and organize a match, one should not complain. If one is really upset, then they should organize and put on their own shooting match, rear sights allowed!!!

But, and I'll say again, and again, I have never heard of smoothbores being banned from a rifle shoot or match. When it comes to shooting offhand, at ranges in the fifty yard zone and closer, and often generous sized targets, the playing field is pretty level between rifles and smooth bores. With a little luck one can even win. And winning a match with a smoothie, against rifles...priceless.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

It's really NOT a question of whether or not a rear sight would help one with accuracy on a smoothie ... look at all the latest military tanks using smoothbore barrels with saboted rounds, gyro stablized fire controls, and laser guided movable ammo fins et al, where they can hit targets miles away!

I guess my biggest concern is how often are guys told they cannot compete in smoothbore matches with a rear sight.

Well, at every competion or woodswalk that I attend and only in informal shooting are they allowed, at least here in the Northeast. Which to me ... is the way it should be!

Historically many fusils were made with them and about ten percent of known trade guns had a rear sight added.

Not quite correct, as technically a 'fusil' is French and they didn't have rear sights. Now if you had used 'fowler', then maybe you'd get a different answer.

Once you get to know your smoothy you will know how much of the barrel you need to see (elevation) and you will know where the front sight needs to be in relation to the rear tang screw (windage).

That may be one, but IMHO is it an inferior method, as "seeing more barrel" on a smoothie can change your cheek position and on a smoothbore fowler/fusil with no rear sight, in essence your cheek becomes the rear sight!

What I recommend:

• Load development, see link at the bottom.
• On tapered barrels, especially where the breech area is also tapered, tape a pencil or suitable round dowel acorss the barrel at the breech so the base of the front sight blade "sits" on it as you look down the barrel. On most smoothies, if you look down towards the front sight without seeing any barrel, you will shoot low.
• You can even mark a centerline, but DO NOT worry about point of impact, high or low, or left or right for right now - go for the best group(s)!
• Shoot for tightest group, where typically 2 or even 3 nodes can be identified on a barrel, so you'll have a lower charge (cheap, easy to shoot, easy on the shoulder) 'target' load and a heavier charge load for hunting.
• If/when you find nice groups loads and you're happy with the 'sight picture', if you want to move the point of impact to align with the sight picture ... simple, bend the barrel!
• Keeping this SAME picture and holding higher on longer targets will (fact, as it's recorded in the BEST book on competitive shooting ever written!) result in better accuracy than changing your cheek position to "see" more barrel. The most accurate shooting position for you, sighting or pointing, is formed by the triangle formed from your cheek (or cheeck when looking through/at the rear sight), the front sight and the shoulder pocket. Change any one of them and the impact changes, which is but one reason why people will say, "Hey, my gun printe differently when I wear heavier Winter clothing.", for example.
• Keep that pencil or dowel, and for weeks before competions, I tape it to the barrel and practice picking up and cheeking the fire lock, 10 to 20 times in a session at home. I may even add some dry firing with a wood flint, for practice. But once "I am attuned to my sight picture I no longer shoot with it.

FYI, just sayin', but in competitions at woodswalks and accuracy contents, my smoothie scores (if I'm having a good day) are usually no more than 10-points behind the best rifle, ie., 15-shootin' station course with 5-points per hit, etc.; you get the idea. So smoothies will shoot ... it's just the 'nut behind the trigger' that makes all the difference in the world!

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/importance-of-‘load-development’-to-find-the-best-group.169960/

 

[Pete453]

With a little luck one can even win. And winning a match with a smoothie, against rifles...priceless.

Shooting offhand levels the playing field between smooth bores and rifles. I won the high aggregate at a local fall rendezvous once, good for first place for the weekend. I was shooting my trade gun almost exclusively at the time in order to get to know it. Apparently it worked, I tied the high scoring rifle but lost by 1/4" on the tie breaker, and had top total score on Sunday(trade guns only). And I never shot pistol or archery. So it can be done, but it does take dedication and a can do attitude.

 

[springfield art]

I forever been into shooting percussion and flintlock rifles and have a solid collection or full custom builds, but never has a desire to own a smoothie flinter. Thanks to the Black Powder Maniac Shooters videos I been watching now I realize I need one and just committed to having one custom built. Walnut 20 gauge 36' barrel in all steel. What I am having a hard time deciding is to go with a rear sight or just the front one. I grew up hunting deer for a while with modern shotgun smoothbore with just a bead shooting slugs so its nothing new. But I am also a stickler for accuracy.

I guess my biggest concern is how often are guys told they cannot compete in smoothbore matches with a rear sight. The whole reason I am getting one is well I don't have one and I want to be able to compete in smoothbore class, as well as flint, and percussion categories when I got to events to maximize my time. Most fliers for events just say iron sights only with patched round balls. Any "INSIGHT" haha would be great.

As it's custom, have a small threaded hole in the rear where you can screw in a removable rear sight at your whim. Could even make a screw to fill it with when doing matches.