Hawken Worth

[Boston Bill]

Necchi, Is there ever a Day where you get out of bed in the morning and feel Happy? Asking for a Forum.....

lol, he can't help himself

 

[mikesto44]

Well I'm late to this but I think it's a great looking gun.!
I would value it at $1800 to 3k depending on where you plan to see it.
Now as far as pricing it's all about where your trying to sell it. If it's in my area of Northern Michigan it's a serious gamble in deed. You'd be lucky to get $500 for it. Because everyone wants an inline..I know pathetic.
Two weeks ago I seen a nice looking Kentucky rifle for sale at a pawn shop. It had a Douglas barrel, Siler lock, Davis triggers. They wanted $225 for it and no interest.
People can talk about the internet all you want. But most people I know want to see it in hand. Oh and the name thing on the barrel. If the seller knows the builder. Yes his price is higher and he will try an get it.
But the regular buyer could careless an he just wants it at a fair price.
My last rant is just because it's custom and with a name on it. DOESN'T mean it's any better than the guy that builds for himself. Professional makers know how to hide their screw ups. Trust me I learned this the hard way and lost a couple grand in the process. On the bright side I'm learning to build my own. Win Win...

 

[Rob M.]

I’m not insulted. This is a forum, a place for discussion. If I don’t want to participate I just move on.

I don’t think you could build a proper Hawken without laying out $1,200 or more for parts. Time and labor costs are largely dependent on the builder’s experience and skill, and how much he (or she) values that time. With that said, I think $1,800 - $2,000 is a fair asking price for a proper Hawken that has been test-fired but not really used, from a lesser-known builder. The price goes rapidly north if an established builder (Selb, Browner, Parker…) put his name on it.

Just looking at the two photos of the subject rifle, I think it’s a high quality build. The finish work on the wood and especially the metal is impeccable, the figure in the stock is outstanding, and the carving and inletting are excellent. Rice barrels are top o’the line.

If somebody paid $1,800 for it, regardless of the builder’s name, I think he would be getting a very good deal. $2,000 would be reasonable. Frankly, this particular rifle is probably worth more, but I doubt you would get it.

That’s my strictly amateur, nonprofessional opinion. I am not an expert, by any means.

I would suggest reversing the wedges, if they are not captured. Original Hawken wedges had the heads on the left. I would also be interested in the brand or maker(s) of the lock, triggers, and breech, if you don’t mind sharing that.

That’s a dandy Hawken.

Notchy Bob

Well said !

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Well I'm late to this but I think it's a great looking gun.!
I would value it at $1800 to 3k depending on where you plan to see it.
Now as far as pricing it's all about where your trying to sell it. If it's in my area of Northern Michigan it's a serious gamble in deed. You'd be lucky to get $500 for it. Because everyone wants an inline..I know pathetic.
Two weeks ago I seen a nice looking Kentucky rifle for sale at a pawn shop. It had a Douglas barrel, Siler lock, Davis triggers. They wanted $225 for it and no interest.
People can talk about the internet all you want. But most people I know want to see it in hand. Oh and the name thing on the barrel. If the seller knows the builder. Yes his price is higher and he will try an get it.
But the regular buyer could careless an he just wants it at a fair price.
My last rant is just because it's custom and with a name on it. DOESN'T mean it's any better than the guy that builds for himself. Professional makers know how to hide their screw ups. Trust me I learned this the hard way and lost a couple grand in the process. On the bright side I'm learning to build my own. Win Win...

I'd bust it up for fire wood before I let it go for less than 3k.

 

[John Stark]

While I'm new to the ML world, I treat everything the same, I pay for quality, period. Some "Names" are generally synonymous with quality but quality isn't restricted to only a well known name. I've seen backwoods blade smiths produce better blades than KA-BAR and Buck....probably right there with Benchmade. IMO, the lack of a well known name doesn't mean the quality suffers, often it's better because they don't have a corporation
to hide behind and repairs/warranty comes out of their pocket so they do it right and tight the first time. You reach a point with anything that you are "paying for the name" as the quality of components have peaked so you're paying for the name of the company that assembled it.
As to the value of the listed weapon.....More than I could comfortably afford, 2.8-3.2K assuming she is as solid as she looks.

 

[mikesto44]

Mike I agree with you.

 

[reddogge]

With all of the crappy "Hawkens" floating around these days, yours is a gem.

 

[cannonball1]

I wouldn’t mind seeing some more pictures of the rifle in post #1.

Notchy Bob

I knew this topic would be very subjective and I had heard that as many craftsmen out there that could make kit guns as well as scratch gun, the value would be less than a modern gun which usually require a metal lathe and such. That is why the question for some of you who trade, buy, or sell. I learned more than one might think. Even Necchi's remarks. Seems like a person learns as much or more from negative remarks than any thing and I knew the input would be very varied with not concrete answer. I have been at it for more years than I can remember. Started with a CVA Kentucky kit. Made it, shot my first ML deer with it and sold it. Next I found a place I could purchase TC Hawkens kits wholesale, so I purchased a half of a dozen of them. Found only one of those first kits that would group worth a darn. Made them and sold them for something to do. From that point on I did not order any more kits. GRRW was starting to sell excellent barrels, so I started to purchase blanks where ever I could find the best curl one and purchased the barrel from Green River. They eventually went out of business. From there I went on to H&H, Montana, Green Mountain, and Rice and a few other barrel makers. I have never tried to make much money at it, just recoup the cost of parts and a lot of times not even that (you know family).

Any way, from all of your appreciated comments, I realize that I might get from $200.00 total or $5.00 to $10.00 per hour for my labor plus parts. But any way you wouldn't find any sanding marks on my guns. Now as per some questions: The lock, patch box, and trigger are Davis(Log Cabin); the barrel is Rice; most of the other parts were some I had purchased earlier, but almost all other parts were TOW. Seems as if good stock blanks as well as some cast parts are drying up and hard to find.

This gun was made for a shorter person (like Davey Crockett). It is a 58 Caliber, 1in 60 twist. 31"long, 3" drop at the heel. and 13 3/4" trigger pull. as requested here is a couple of extra photos.

Thanks all.
Cannonball

 

[Banjoman]

Again,

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I knew this topic would be very subjective and I had heard that as many craftsmen out there that could make kit guns as well as scratch gun, the value would be less than a modern gun which usually require a metal lathe and such. That is why the question for some of you who trade, buy, or sell. I learned more than one might think. Even Necchi's remarks. Seems like a person learns as much or more from negative remarks than any thing and I knew the input would be very varied with not concrete answer. I have been at it for more years than I can remember. Started with a CVA Kentucky kit. Made it, shot my first ML deer with it and sold it. Next I found a place I could purchase TC Hawkens kits wholesale, so I purchased a half of a dozen of them. Found only one of those first kits that would group worth a darn. Made them and sold them for something to do. From that point on I did not order any more kits. GRRW was starting to sell excellent barrels, so I started to purchase blanks where ever I could find the best curl one and purchased the barrel from Green River. They eventually went out of business. From there I went on to H&H, Montana, Green Mountain, and Rice and a few other barrel makers. I have never tried to make much money at it, just recoup the cost of parts and a lot of times not even that (you know family).

Any way, from all of your appreciated comments, I realize that I might get from $200.00 total or $5.00 to $10.00 per hour for my labor plus parts. But any way you wouldn't find any sanding marks on my guns. Now as per some questions: The lock, patch box, and trigger are Davis(Log Cabin); the barrel is Rice; most of the other parts were some I had purchased earlier, but almost all other parts were TOW. Seems as if good stock blanks as well as some cast parts are drying up and hard to find.View attachment 287515View attachment 287516

This gun was made for a shorter person (like Davey Crockett). It is a 58 Caliber, 1in 60 twist. 31"long, 3" drop at the heel. and 13 3/4" trigger pull. as requested here is a couple of extra photos.

Thanks all.
Cannonball

13 3/4 is a bit long for me and I'm 5-11.
It's a great gun and I generally don't care for Hawken rifles.

 

[Kabulrocks]

Here is an original Hawken. This was a smaller caliber squirrel gun. Note the patch box. View attachment 286811

Where is this rifle located? In a museum?

 

[Kabulrocks]

This Hawken was made at the end of last year. It is a 58 caliber with a 31" barrel, similar to one of Kit Carson's gun and it has had a dozen shots fired thru it so it becomes a used gun. This Rice barrel shoot exceedingly well. The question is could a no-name maker even re-coup the money for the parts listed? What is the guess of the guns worth?View attachment 286770View attachment 286769View attachment 286771

Very nice rifle! Is the barrel tapered or straight?

 

[mikesto44]

Beautiful rifle indeed. But as we all know and I've been buying and selling for fifty plus years. You can put your price where you want. Then wait for the right buyer or sell for a little less and make up your loss on the next deal.
You just need to figure out the tire kickers from the buyer's. JMHO

 

[cannonball1]

I too want to see the other rifle in your first post.

This is not quite the same gun. I made two English Sporting Rifles that look alike. This one a 12 ga smoothbore and the one shown in the picture is pretty close only a 20 ga smoothbore. The 20 Ga compliments a flintlock full stock Hawkens and my youngest gets both. They use the same .600 round ball. The real concours'of Alex Henry ML turn their nose up at these guns because almost all of them were made with walnut rather than maple. I found a beautiful piece of walnut I really liked, offered the guy $700.00. He laughed at me and told me I couldn't touch it for over $1000.00 so I made two of them with the Maple. I did find an original maker during that time period who made one with maple. Good enough for me. The black end is Ebony wood.
Sorry, I would have sent it earlier, but just saw your post.

 

[mikesto44]

Excellent craftsmanship....beautiful..!

 

[ronaldrothb49]

13 3/4 is a bit long for me and I'm 5-11.
It's a great gun and I generally don't care for Hawken rifles.

I am also 5' 11" but I have found over the years that I actually shoot better with a 13 3/4" LOP. I have come to the conclusion that my arms are probably longer than the average shooter that the 13 1/2 " LOP is designed for.

 

[Mulebrain]

You do some very nice work

 

[Notchy Bob]

Well, @cannonball1 , if you were already building rifles when GRRW started selling barrels, I’d say you have been at it for a while... half a century or so. Your experience shows, especially in those close-ups.

In my first post on this thread, I suggested a price of $1,800 - $2,000 would give the buyer a very good deal, but with the market as it is, I didn’t know if you would be able to get more than that. However, I most humbly apologize, and would agree with those who suggested at least $3K. Folks who are discerning enough to recognize the quality understand what it costs.

The Hawken and the English gun are both outstanding.

Notchy Bob

 

[cannonball1]

Thank you N. Bob, Yes I have been at it a long time. I am old and still able to make a gun or two. It is my wintertime hobby. I am giving my guns to a next generation of my kids before they get to old to enjoy them. Actually the kids are getting them with the understanding to give them to my grandkids before they get to old to enjoy them. I am not giving them out evenly either. If I see one of them would sell it, I'll bypass that child and also if one is not into guns. Why give them one. I am only saving one muzzleloader to shoot. A sporting rifle with a 1 in 18" twist paper patch 45 caliber bullet and peep sight. all the others will given out before the year is out.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I suspect you spent at least 100 hours making it. If you charged a rock bottom living wage of $20/hr you have a minimum of $2000 in labor. Asking $3200 would be a bargain. Heck, there is a guy trying to sell a Kibler woodsrunner with really simple but mediocre carving for $3600 through Track of the Wolf.

dave