Heavy Sigh

[Damascus]

Posted a question some weeks ago about the traditions shanandoah flinter, 50 cal, 33" barrel. Was advised against it, but my wife had already ordered the rifle for our anniversary. Rather than return it, I went ahead and kept it.

It has fired fairly consistantly for the first 20 or so shots, only mis-firing once or twice. Now, it will hardly fire at all, 4 flash-in-the pan for every actual fire. I have cleaned and cleaned, picked the vent spotless, tried different powder (though it has all been from the same batch) and every other thing I can think of. I remember someone mentioning that the vent was too long in some traditions flinters, and that it needed to be drilled out and coned. Anyone have any advice about getting this smokepole to fire more consistantly?



Damascus

 

[roundball]

Almost sounds like there has been a gradual buildup of fouling down in the breech, blocking easy access of pan flash into the main...might want to thoroughly clean it out good.

If it's a hooked breech barrel, I'd remove and soak the breech end in a pail of steaming hot soapy water for 15 minutes then pump flush everything in and out through the vent.

Get it bone dry...100% bone dry...lube it...try again.

:m2c:

 

Does it have a vent liner or just a touch hole? I would find out what sort of vent liner they use, maybe switch to a white lightning or something.

Now, this may sound like a dumb question, but do you use a bore scraper? I didn't for a while and then when I finally did, I was SHOCKED at the amount of manure can build up. Just a thought.

Something is getting clogged up some where, we'll get to the bottom of it!

:thumbsup:

 

Now, this may sound like a dumb question, but do you use a bore scraper? I didn't for a while and then when I finally did, I was SHOCKED at the amount of manure can build up. Just a thought.:

I've heard this on these forms before and it always leaves me baffled. I've been shooting these things for over 20 years and my dad has been for over 35 years. I've never owned a breech scraper let alone used one and I doubt my dad has either (never seen him use one and never seen one in his shooting box). On my old flinter, I used to have a liner with a slot and at the end of every season, I would take the liner out and check for cleanliness before putting it up for the winter. The breech area and breechplug face were ALWAY spotless. I only clean with patches. Never remove the barrel and "hydraulic" wash in a pail of water. I don't know why some people get breech build up and some don't. However, if a shooter swabs between shots, perhaps that is causing it. Swabbing would push alot of crud to the bottom of the bore and the susequent powder charge would only serve to bake it in place. I don't know. I never swab and never get breech crud build up. it would be interesting to take a pole to see if people that swab between shots are also the ones with the crud buidup problem or do non-swabbers get it too. Any thoughts?

Cody

 

[cfjohnson]

Make sure your flint is very sharp. In the half cock possition it sould almost touch the closed frizzen. Bevel up or down could make a hotter spark. Make sure and clean the flash pan to shiny in between shots. Polished pan is the best, buff ! Fine flash pan powder for quicker ignition! Search the www for tuning a flintlock. Very good INFO!

Forrest

 

[Damascus]

It's a ventliner, the stock one that came with the rifle.
Not completely sure how to remove the lock to change the ventliner, though I'd certainly be willing to give it a try.

I have had to pull the ball and clean it out, and did use a breech scraper then.

I am wondering how much pressure to put when your seating the ball and patch, I am always worried about packing it too tight. Should I even be packing it at all?

Should I be swabbing between shots?

The pan has never failed to ignite, just having trouble getting it to ignite the main charge.

The fouling is usually a bit moister that I would expect, is that completely normal?


Thanks again for the help,


Damascus

 

[Tumblernotch]

When I started shooting flint about 27 years ago, I had bought a CVA Hawken in flint. I had the same problem and it turned out that in the patent breech on this gun, the flash had to make a 90 degree turn to get to the charge. A friend of mine (now deceased) who was a topnotch rifle builder worked on it, enlarging the channel and doing other little tricks that he never explained to me. I never had any more trouble with it. I traded the gun years ago, so I can't take it apart and describe what was done. I don't know how the Traditions rifles are made.

As for pressure when seating the ball, you just want to make sure the bullet is seated against the powder. Ramming it hard can crush the powder and it is more susceptable to draw moisture if not fired soon after loading.

I normally swab between shots because I shoot a fairly tight load and it makes it easier to load. Also, when target shooting, wiping between shots insures the condition of the bore will be the same for each shot. It's not necessary I guess, but I think it helps. I know a lot of other shooters who do the same.

Moist fouling is a good sign of high humidity. Other than being messier, I prefer it that way. It's easier to clean between shots than when it's dry.

 

It's a ventliner, the stock one that came with the rifle.
Not completely sure how to remove the lock to change the ventliner, though I'd certainly be willing to give it a try.

I have had to pull the ball and clean it out, and did use a breech scraper then.

I am wondering how much pressure to put when your seating the ball and patch, I am always worried about packing it too tight. Should I even be packing it at all?

Should I be swabbing between shots?

The pan has never failed to ignite, just having trouble getting it to ignite the main charge.

The fouling is usually a bit moister that I would expect, is that completely normal?


Thanks again for the help,


Damascus

Hey Damascus, you live in Flint, why not bring your gun out to the Colonial Kensington event this coming Saturday in Milford. There will be a lot of flint shooters there who can help you--I'll be there, but there are much more qualified people than me.

On packing, yes, you should have a tight seal against the powder.

Hope to see you soon!

SB

 

what brand powder are you using? I ask this only because I had similar problems and thought it was my rifle--only to find out it was bad powder...I did open the venthole a tiny bit also.

 

[GregC]

Damascus....

You need to take the lock off to clean the thing all the time, every time. The lock should be held on by two screws on the opposite side of the rifle. Unscrew them, put them in a safe place, and gently pop the lock out of the inlet.

Take the flint from the jams and drop the lock in a bucket of hot soapy water. Let it sit for a few minutes then scrub it with a scrub brush. Next, put it in the oven on 'warm" for a 10-15 mins until its really dry then oil it with WD40 or something.

Next, take the barrel off the stock if you can. Drop the back of the barrel in same bucket of hot soapy water and let it set 10 mins. Now put a patch on your ramrod and start pumpimg water in and out of the touchhole. Remember the back of the barrel and touch hole are under water. Pump, pump, pump. Dump the water and do it again.

After the water is clean take the barrel out and run some dry patches down the tube until they feel dry. Next yet your wifes hairdryer and blow warm air down the barrel for a few minutes then blow warm air into the touchhole. After you are sure its real dry, lube it up and then go shoot the darn thing.

 

[GregC]

IF YOU ARE 100% SURE THE GUN IS UNLOADED AND INCAPABLE OF FIRING A CHARGE - I MEAN NO POWDER, SHOT OR BALL IN THE BARREL and NO PRIME IN THE PAN. NO FLINT, NO COCKED, NOTHING. 100% EMPTY AND UNLOADED.

Stick your mouth over the muzzle and blow down the barrel like you are blowing up a balloon. Do you feel air coming out the touchhole?

You should. If not got a clog.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I like the idea of squirting WD-40 using the little red nozzle in the touch-hole better. :winking:

 

[rexdevantier]

The buildup theory sounds right. Try cleaning on top of the powder if you want to clean between shots. Works for me.
Rex Dev :front:

 

[Leatherbark]

When you load the thing you should see small kernals of Black powder in the vent........Factory rifles have a patent type breech which consists of a small communication hole that the powder has to settle into to get to the vent........take the vent out and run a pipe cleaner in there and use 3fg Black powder and open the vent up to 1/16 inch........When you load the powder raise the rifle up and gently pound the buttstock on the ground to settle that powder into the small communication hole that goes from the bottom of the barrel back into the vent area.......To see if it has a patent breech.....take out the vent and run the ramrod down the barrel until it bottoms out....then take out the ramrod and lay it beside the barrel.......If it has a patent breech the ramrod will stop about an inch before it gets to the vent liner......Bob

 

[benvenuto]

1) install a better ventliner
2) load with the vent-pick in place(taught to me by an oldtimer)

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Damascus,

Your problem suspiciously sounds like the one my friend Davy had with his Pedersolli Frontier flintlock, and the problem KanawhaRanger describes with his TC flinter.

Look up my post to Pepperbelly listed under IF YOU WERE GOING TO BUY A FLINTLOCK FOR COMPETITION.

After reading the post, remove the flash hole liner, see if the rifle has a patent type breech, and if there is a build up of burnt powder restricting the powder chamber. Little restriction is required to prevent the powder from getting down to the end of the pattern breech powder chamber and the touch hole.

Let us know what you find after the examination.

Best regards,

John L. Hinnant

 

[Damascus]

Well, believe it or not, I finally got back to where I could work on that flinter of mine.

After reading everyones suggestions, I started running patches through 'er to see what happened. I did end up getting a lot of residue out, and after a dozen patches, started hearing a whistle from the vent every time I ran another patch.

After getting it to that point, I went with the old fashioned super high speed cleaning solution: Boiling hot water. It was amazing what a difference it made, and it came clean in no time. So much manure came out, I gotta wonder if something plastic hadnt gotten in there between loads.

In any case, after a good cleaning, and lots of dry patches, and a couple of bore-butter soaked patches, it was time to see if I had made a difference. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The ignition time dropped to almost nil, with no hesitation at all between the hammer fall and the blast! we went 30 shots without a "flash in the pan" and it even seems more accurate (course if its firing at all its more accurate.)

Now im running 2 dry patches through the barrell between shots, and a thorough cleaning and good bore butter swab after all is said and done before I put 'er away.

Thanks again for all the advice. Its good to be back in business again.

 

[Rebel]

You shouldn't run dry patches down a fouled bore, that is a sure fire way to wind up with a jag and patch stuck down the bore. And that is no fun at all. The patch should be at least damp, spit, water, moosemilk, something to keep it from sticking in the bore, followed by a dry patch.

 

[Horace]

A dry patch can also knock debris down into the "patent breech" area and cause real ignition problems.

 

[Damascus]

so then a lubed patch, then a dry patch between every shot will have to do. OR DO I EVEN NEED TO DO THAT?

How do I know if I need to run patches between shots? It was mostly just paranoia that got me stared in the first place.




Damascus