Help: ball, patch and powder stuck

[Armando]

After hunting with my 50 Hawken Woodsman, I normally go home and just unload by firing into a backstop.

Today I got rained on quite a bit, and when I got home I tried 4x with caps but could not get it to fire. (maybe my powder got wet?)

Haven't tried the ball puller which I have because everyone tells me its near impossible. Others recommend CO2 discharger but I don't know here to get the right one.

Its leaning up against my wall driving me crazy.

 

[Cowboy]

First off my friend I wouldn’t think that your powder is wet. I’d remove the nipple and check to be sure your flash hole in the nipple is free from any kind of obstruction. Since the nipple is now removed, I’d then sprinkle a few grains of real Blackpowder if you have it? Reinstall the nipple, then cap and fire the ball out.

If that doesn’t work? You’ve mentioned that you do have a ball puller. Go ahead and screw it into the ball. If you have a T handle range rod hook it onto a beam or something solid. Then grab your muzzleloader and pull the lodged ball out of yer barrel. Can also employ the help from a friend. Either he or you hold on to the muzzleloader while the other pulls on the range rod with short sharp yanks until the ball exits. Using a ball puller really does work my friend. Try shooting it out first if you can get yer hands on a little Blackpowder? If not? Pull the ball out. Let us know how you made out?

Good luck.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Otter]

Haven't tried the ball puller which I have because everyone tells me its near impossible.

The trick with using a ball puller (as Cowboy says above) is NOT to try to pull the ball out of the rifle, but to pull the RIFLE off of the ball. You might have to "tap" the ball puller into the ball to make certain it engages before screwing it in. This works well and can save your ramrod as well. Or try the 'ol powder in the bolster trick. Or get a CO2 discharger. There are a couple other methods but they can be messy. Personally, I like the CO2 discharger best . . . faster, quieter and safer IMHO.

 

[Don Steele]

Don't know who "everyone" is Joe but a ball puller, when used correctly will work just fine. I've used them for over 40 yrs on my own rifles and many others without incident or issues.
It helps to have the puller attachment on a straight rod. It should have a correctly sized-for- caliber "collar" on it to ensure that the screw tip is on the top of the ball. Then, as Otter said...tap the end of the rod to embed the tip of the screw into the soft lead ball before you start twisting the rod.
I like a CO2 discharger real well when one is available, but I don't have one. I also have had great success following Cowboy's suggestion to add a little blackpowder under the nipple, replace the nipple and shoot it out.
One side note though, if you wind up using your puller, after you get the screw well into the ball, please don't ask a friend to grab the rod, and stand in front of the muzzle of your loaded rifle to pull it out. :nono: :nono: :nono:
This is where a "T-" handle screwed into the end of your rod is a great thing to have. There are mechanical "rod-grabbers" out there too. Just be aware of where the muzzle of that LOADED RIFLE is pointing at all times. :thumbsup:

 

[dragnetbill]

If you decide to try the ball puller, I would suggest that once you have it well screwed into the ball that you squirt some thin lube/cleaning liquid (like Moose Milk) down the bore and give it a minute to soak the patching material.
I did this with a CVA that I bought last year that by all indications had been left loaded since 1988 or so; ball and pillow tick with rusty ring came out easier than I would have thought.
As an aside, I wouldn't hesitate to try window washing fluid as a soaking lube pre-pulling.
Just the other day I had two sections of a vintage fly rod stuck together and was just about to give up after trying Kroil, heat, cold, pleading and !@#$%.... Squirted a little washer fluid in the joint and the sections came right apart with moderate effort.

 

[Ames]

Seems I never have anyone around the few times I got one stuck. I take an old ram rod and put the ball puller on it. Tap and screw into the ball, then clamp the other end of the rod to a workbench in my barn with a large wooden handscrew. A vise would work as well. Then, as stated, with one fast motion try to pull the gun off the ball. Should move on the first try.
Just don't use your good rod with a clamp. I found out the hard way. :shocked2:

 

[Vaino]

Make sure the "tip" of the RR is pinned before trying the ball puller....Fred

 

[Armando]

THANKS GUYS!

BALL PULLER WORKED GREAT!

I had run some bore butter type down the barrel earlier (before loading) so the bore was nice and slick. My screw-in ball puller from Track of the Wolf worked great!

 

[Black Hand]

Sometimes, it is tough to get the ball/patch moving, so pour a little water (a tablespoon or so) down the barrel, let it sit a few minutes then pull...

 

[Rifleman1776]

THANKS GUYS!

BALL PULLER WORKED GREAT!

I had run some bore butter type down the barrel earlier (before loading) so the bore was nice and slick. My screw-in ball puller from Track of the Wolf worked great!

Glad it worked for you. Usually, pulling is a last attempt, desperation method. What was earlier suggested about pulling the nipple, dribbling in some REAL blackpowder and shooting it out will solve the problem 99% of the time.

 

[azmntman]

Bore butter is nice n slick on the way down. IT DRIES THO :idunno: Now ya got hard wax like coating. Glad you pulled yer ball tho :thumbsup:

 

[Kansas Jake]

I've pulled the ball a number of times. Usually it has been uneventful. One time the screw pulled out even after going clear through the ball and I had to find a larger screw to go into the ball. I've also found that if I tap the top of the ramrod after the screw is on top of the ball it will help get the screw to bite and screw into the ball. I've also shot a number of them out too. I prefer to shoot the ball out as it is generally easier. I've also trickled powder in the drum or patent breech and shot out a wire brush with a patch on it.

 

[Col. Batguano]

There is also a plan C and Plan D. Personally, I've never had luck with the CO2 dischargers, at least on flint guns. They don't seem to seal well enough. A Plan C is to replace your nipple with a grease zerc and pump grease through the barrel in the hope the hydraulic pressure will force the ball out. Plan D is to pullthe plug and jst force it through the breech end, That's really a last resort though, because it's almost impossible to get the tang to line up PERFECTLY with the barrel flat, so you wouldn't feel it when you re-install it.

I personally also have a plan E for flint guns, though not many others have it. I have a scuba compressor at home that pumps my bank fill tanks up to 4000 psi. I can take the fill yoke and loop it over the barrel breech and blast 4000 psi air through the vent if I need to. No stuck ball is going to resist that amount of force. Note; That ball is going to really be moving when it comes out, so be mindful of ricochets when doing it indoors!

 

[Armando]

BTW, I use GOEX ffg powder. The granules are pretty big. Would I just stick one or two into the unscrewed nipple port if I tried that method?

 

[Grenadier1758]

When you are being told to remove the nipple and dribble in a few grains of powder under the nipple, we are talking about grains in weight not individual granules of powder. This booster charge is about the volume of 1/2 of a 22 long rifle case.

When shooting a ball out, make sure the ball is seated on the powder. If the ball is separated from the powder, you risk damaging the barrel.

 

[azmntman]

There is also a plan C and Plan D. Personally, I've never had luck with the CO2 dischargers, at least on flint guns. They don't seem to seal well enough. A Plan C is to replace your nipple with a grease zerc and pump grease through the barrel in the hope the hydraulic pressure will force the ball out. Plan D is to pullthe plug and jst force it through the breech end, That's really a last resort though, because it's almost impossible to get the tang to line up PERFECTLY with the barrel flat, so you wouldn't feel it when you re-install it.

I personally also have a plan E for flint guns, though not many others have it. I have a scuba compressor at home that pumps my bank fill tanks up to 4000 psi. I can take the fill yoke and loop it over the barrel breech and blast 4000 psi air through the vent if I need to. No stuck ball is going to resist that amount of force. Note; That ball is going to really be moving when it comes out, so be mindful of ricochets when doing it indoors!

:hmm: Unless one has a big dirt bank in the living room I believe I would recommend an outdoors discharge! 4000psi :shocked2: Ya outta chronograph that puppie :haha:

 

[Kansas Jake]

It is amazing how much power just a few grains has when you fire out a dry ball. It is not the sort of thing you want to do unless there is no other option in the house or garage.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I think a normal sort of .22 bullet trap would stop it. I've shot lead 45 ACP's and .38 Sp's in to it with no distortion to the back plate. A single shot from a .22 WMR dented it though. Mostly a velocity and concentration of impact force thing I think. A wild guess is that 4000 psi behind a 50 cal RB would generate velocities in the 800 fps range or even less, which would produce a more distributed impact area (similar to a pistol fired 45 ACP) and less ability to dent the back plate than a high velocity .22 WMR.

I've never done the drill to blow the ball out with the compressor. The other methods have worked when I've needed to do them. Sounds like a cool science experiment the "hold my beer" crowd or Darwin Award aspirants would love though.

 

[azmntman]

800 fps could get a guy in deep dodo if not fired at a safe backstop. A target backstop like you describe might work? I'd still think thrice afore unloading that way :hmm:

 

[dlidster]

I've dealt with more than a few dryballs by feeding T7 FFG through the nipple socket into the patent breach of my TC Hawken. I've found it will take [about] the equivalent of two .22 long rifle cases.

I discovered something particularly interesting relating to safety. When "clearing" the patched ball it will lob the ball more than 200 yards. I did this from my shooting position to the 200-yard berm at my local range. The berm that stopped it is a hillside. If it hadn't been there the ball would have gone a bit farther.