Help! Can't hit the taget with a traditions deerhunter .50 kit.

[nkbj]

Good pictures of recovered patches would give the centuries of experience on this forum some hard data for a diagnosis. The minds here don't always agree but they have been around the horn.

 

[PastorB]

I have two Traditions Deer Hunters, both in .50 cal, and they are real shooters. They are as accurate as any rifle I own, with either PRB or short conical (60 grain load of FFFg, pyrodex P, or Triple 7) , such as Buffalo Ball-et (I have a stash), Hornady PA Hunter, or the shorter, lighter (250 grain?) Lee REAL mode. My son killed his first 8 deer with one, and I've killed 9 bucks with 9 shots with the other, so I have a high opinion of them. I say all that to establish that I have a great deal of experience with them.
I suspect your powder my be bad, Elephant hasn't been made in years. One of my rifles started shooting very poorly after many shots, because the nipple hole had become enlarged. A quick change out to an Ampco nipple fixed that. Shoot from a rest, offhand is no way to go to test for accuracy. Find your patches, they should be almost reusable if everything is alright. At the short range you are shooting, I really don't think powder charge (within reason), patch thickness (anything .010 to .020 should be fine) or .490 vs. .495 ball should really be an issue. If you shoot well with other rifles, about any reasonable load you put down the barrel should shoot a ragged hole at 20 meters. I suspect something else, maybe something completely inexplicable. I have a .54 Investarms Hunter Hawken with a chrome barrel. It has never shot any projectile with accuracy (12" groups at 25 yards, benched) from the day I purchased it. Tried everything, conicals and PRB's, changed sights, tested every powder, charge weight, patch thickness and material, and the thing still wouldn't shoot, and the bore is perfect! My other Investarm Traditional Hawken, also in .54 , shoots great. Sometimes, I hope not in your case, a rifle just won't shoot no matter what, and the cause it near impossible to diagnose. Sorry to be so "wordy", hope you achieve better results.

 

[Flintlock]

The "kit", May not have the breech/tang imposition set properly, a very common issue. The tang needs to be fully set against the wood stock with free and complete tang lock-up.
Olive oil,, sure, nothing wrong there, Until the patches are dripping oil when ya load'm,, and the linen is from an old shirt.
Good idea.
That's an absolute misconception. it doesn't work like that.
What I'm getting at is we're here to help ya,, but actual detail will help us help you.
Nothing wrong with learning at all.
Experience tells us your rifle should have much better results,, hang in there,, let's figure it out,

Olive oil works very well, been using it for years and I also leave my rifle loaded for up to a month at a time.

 

[Crow-Feather]

Dear all

I got a traditions deerhunter .50 percussion kit but my shooting results aren't good enough for me

I am using 60-70 grains of elephant black powder and from 20 meters , all I am obtaining is flyers around the target (round paper, 20cm)

Since I can shoot well with another gun (Cabela's traditional hawken. 50), I think the problem is not me.

By now, I am thinking that the problems could be:


4. Too thick patches, preventing the ball get in full contact with rifling.

Patches need to be thick enough to fill the grooves of the rifling. They will spin the patch when it exits the barrel. They also need to be rough enough to hold onto the ball and impart the spin of the bore onto the ball. The ball DOES NOT CONTACT the rifling. Your patch must completely cover the sides of the ball.

Being that this is a kit rifle, I would also suspect that there are two parts rubbing or exerting pressure that could be causing your problem. I had a 32 caliber rifle that was poorly put together and the lock and Bolster rubbed together. A screw under the barrel rubbed on the bottom of the barrel and the tang was set on top of a screw so that it would be even with the stock. The company finally replaced it with a new rifle.

 

[mooman76]

A lot of good info here. Probably overwhelming. If the powder shoots good in your other gun, the powder is fine. Keep in mind a new gun should be shooting high. They make the sights that way for solid sights so you can adjust them by filing down the front sight when you find where you want to be on target at. Also new guns usually need a breaking in period because of sharp rifling, if you use the steel wool to smooth it out, make sure you use fins steel wool or even some kind of laping compound.

 

[hanshi]

I owned a DeerHunter .50 for over 20 years and burned a LOT of Elephant powder in it. It was accurate, killed lots of deer and I liked it a lot. It might be that something or things could be loose. Anything from sights, tang screw, barrel wedges and more. The barrel could also be very "ill fitted" into the stock. There should be no reason for your results if the rifle was 100% put together and fitted properly.

 

[New bp shooter]

I have a traditions deer Hunter I took a buck with it this year for the first time mine shoots very good groups using 90 grains of triple 7 2 f t 495 round ball to the 05 patch I lube the patch with Thompson center boar butter works well I know other people complain about it but works well for me and it shoots very consistently

 

[SDSmlf]

Keep in mind a new gun should be shooting high. They make the sights that way for solid sights so you can adjust them by filing down the front sight when you find where you want to be on target at.

Filing down the front sight will raise the point of impact.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Tried elephant black powder once. The only way I could hit the broad side of a barn was if I was inside with the doors closed. Try Goex or other brands...

Hahaha..I have not heard the closed door expression since my Grandfather passed. 42years ago.

 

[bubba.50]

While yer checkin' over all these other suggestions, check how solidly your barrel fits in the stock.

 

[mooman76]

Filing down the front sight will raise the point of impact.

Brain fart moment, got it backwards. Or upside down.

 

[marco]

Hi, one doubt.

I'm using squared olive oil lubed patches from an old shirt (I'm out of store bought beeswax round patches).

Would anyone please tell me what would be a correct/good/fair circumference of lubed patches to shoot a .50 rifle?

So I can produce a good amount of equal size round patches from different fabrics, all of them with the same circumference, leaving the squared patches just for use with cleaning jag. (LoL)

Thanks

 

[Miles42]

never give up, you can do it.

 

[SDSmlf]

Hi, one doubt.

I'm using squared olive oil lubed patches from an old shirt (I'm out of store bought beeswax round patches).

Would anyone please tell me what would be a correct/good/fair circumference of lubed patches to shoot a .50 rifle?

So I can produce a good amount of equal size round patches from different fabrics, all of them with the same circumference, leaving the squared patches just for use with cleaning jag. (LoL)

Thanks

It is the patch thickness and tightness of the weave that is important. If the patch diameter is too large, you can always trim it at the muzzle.

 

[Boomerang]

I'm using squared olive oil lubed patches from an old shirt

I think this is your main problem. First of all is the shirt 100% cotton? Second of all the shirt material is probably too thin and blowing through causing erratic flight.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I would guess the wrong patch fit as well, all us old guys go to the fabric store with calipers and measure the pillow ticking, cotton drill cloth or denim for different thickness to use for patching to get the best accuracy. A overly loose fitting patch will make the ball hit like you describe.

 

[marco]

Hi all,

My patches are from and old linen fabric, a little less denser than jeans denim.
My round balls enter the crow very tight, not loose,

I will switch the linen patches for pure cotton as suggested here.

I would appreciate if anyone could suggest a good patch diameter for a .50 rifle, so I can use a punch to make all of it the same diameter

 

[nkbj]

Can you post pictures of some patches?

 

[Erwan]

I would appreciate if anyone could suggest a good patch diameter for a .50 rifle, so I can use a punch to make all of it the same diameter

For the patch diameter, this is simple : ~1,00" is good for a .50 Cal...
Then, the job is to determinate the good thickness of this patch, that could be .010, .014, or xxx...
One simple example : if your bore measures .50" between flats, and your bullet measures .49", the difference is .01". That leaves .005" on both sides of the bullet.
This sounds like the minimum thickness of the piece, but in fact it is not. The filler material must make a gas tight seal, so you must fill the grooves equally with your filler. Also add the depth of the grooves, and there you have it, a starting point. In this case, the correct thickness should be about .014-.016".
After shooting it will be necessary to collect and examine the patches to know if they really are at the best thickness which corresponds to the rifle...

 

[Grenadier1758]

Some of the lots of Elephant powder were capable of decent accuracy. However, Elephant powder was notorious for being very dirty and unless the shooter kept the fouling down to a consistent level much hope for an accurate on target performance was not likely. Each shot would add more fouling to the grooves and pressure would change for each shot. Then with all that fouling the possibility of blocking the flash channel with fouling was quite likely. But @marco is getting good accuracy with the Elephant powder in a different rifle, so patch material starts to become a likely possibility. Linen patching should be tougher than cotton and stand up to the sharp lands in a new rifle better than cotton. Hopefully the weave is tight so gas cutting through the loose weave is not adding to the spread of the groups. We need to see some pictures of the recovered patches.