help -- flint POI on frizzen, general flint problems

[jweston]

Hello all,
I was shooting yesterday and having problems with ignition. Part of it is the lock to vent placement (and the lock), but I believe that most of my problems were due to the flint. I have been figuring out my flintlock in a vacuum; meaning I have never seen another person shooting a flintlock in person and thus I am without a mentor.

I guess what I need is help on properly placing the flint in the jaws of the hammer and also in knapping the flint sharper. I remember seeing a animated tutorial in German on flint placement and frizzen contact, but I have not been able to find it again. Could someone post some good tutorials or if you are close to middle Alabama tutor me?

Thanks in advance,
BBurg

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs/tuning.htm
[url] http://www.muzzleblasts.com/archives/vol4no1/articles/mbo41-3.html[/url]

More if you google 'flintlock tuning' ... I get blocked looking at most MZL sites from my work PC, even during lunch .

 

[2172]

the flint should be placed so the edge touches the frizzen when at half cock. as to sharpening a flint, "knapping", I just take the back edge of my knife blade and let it bounce lightly, along the top edge of the flint..tiny flakes will come off the lower edge....
It might help to get some better answers if you were to tell us what gun you're shooting...
is it new or old? Hank

 

[J.D.]

It would help to know the manufacturer of your gun.

Photos of your lock with flint in place, at half cock, at full down and showing the touchhole to pan realtionship, would help too.

What, specifically is the problem? Slow iginition? Flash in the pan? No sparks? Flints being destroyed?

The flint should NOT contact the frizzen at half cock, BTW. Sometimes the flint making contact with the frizzen at half cock can not be avoided, but it is not the ideal.

 

[Will Bison]

I think many of us have been in your position in the past.

Three basic things must happen to get proper ignition;

1 The lock must spark

2 The pan must ignite

3 The main charge must fire

Work on number one first. In a dimly lit room, dry fire several times and check the sparks.

Flint should almost touch the frizzen at half cock. Try bevel up or bevel down on the flint.

Number two, don't over prime the pan. About three grains of powder is all it takes. The vent hole should be well clear of the prime charge. The vent should be located at the junction of the pan and frizzen and centered fore and aft.

Number three. Make certain the vent is clear prior to pouring the main charge.

Don't try trouble shooting at the range, most of this can be done at home. Get good sparks and good pan ignition first, then head for the range.

Common problems are bad geometry in the lock, soft frizzen, wrong size flint, flint too dull, vent not located properly.

Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[jweston]

Oops, JD. I did neglect to mention the model -- it's a Lyman GPR.

Thanks for the responses so far, both posts and PMs.
BBurg

 

[rich pierce]

The position of the flint relative to the frizzen varies a lot depending on lock geometry, primarily the location of the half-cock notch in the tumbler, the cock throw and frizzen angle. The oft repeated "almost touching the frizzen at half-cock" comes from experience with the large Siler, not other locks.

Just position the flint so that it throws the frizzen open smartly and with good sparking. Moving it 1/8" can make a difference.

 

[Todd Rickard]

Get a dozen good black english flints and eliminate the need for knapping while you try the other suggestions. If it works good with sharp, new flints then you know where to work next. My GPRs all take the flint bevel down, and work great.

 

[d.thomson]

I assume that you are mostly getting flash in the pans You might want to open up the touch hole to 1/16 or 5/64. I have a GPR in flint and found when I opened up the "T.H" to 5/64 it ignighted every time. As sugested go to the black English flints 5/8 and have at it. I also found that my T.H. is set a little far back mabe 3/64. I replaced the T.H. liner with a "White Lightning"3/8 and eventualy opened up the T.H. to 1/16 and then to 5/64. It is now almost as fast as my cap gun "T/C Hawkens". If you go this way go to TOTW they have for $15.00 a drillbit tap and White Lightning T.H. liner In one Kit. Well Good Luck And don't be afraid to ask questions. F.K.

 

[jweston]

I am NOT afraid of questions, or of showing my ignorance. I have found this forum to be one of the MOST helpful and LEAST judgemental of any of the special interest forums that I visit. Just my 2 centavos.

 

[hbarrett]

No need to be in a vacuum.I am in Tuscaloosa.I am certainly no expert and have only been flinting a short time but am willing to compare mistakes,notes etc

 

[roundball]

I am NOT afraid of questions, or of showing my ignorance. I have found this forum to be one of the MOST helpful and LEAST judgemental of any of the special interest forums that I visit. Just my 2 centavos.

If I'm not mistaken your lock is the same physical size & configuration as a TC lock...and 3/4"w (x7/8"L) black english flints are hands down the most superior of any type flint in all my TC locks, bevel up, all but touching the frizzen face at half cock.

 

[cptleo1]

I have to go with Fusil on this one.

Get yourself a dozen NEW flints - Get her working and learn to knapp em later.

Try them in the bevel up and bevel down position.

A little gap @ 1/2 cock is a good place to start.

Make sure the flint is square to the frizzen face.

Make sure the corner of the flint is not hitting the barrel.

Make sure the flint hits the frizzen face @ least 1/2 way up.

She will shoot.

Go ahead and open up the vent - you really shouldn't have to but they do work better drilled out.

The GPR is a little cranky about priming the pan

I use and always have used ffff for prime.

One of those spring loaded things works just right

Keep thhe prime away from the vent hole.

After a while you know what 3gr looks like in the pan and it's easier to prime from a small horn.

The vacuum deal is not so bad.

At least somebody is not looking over your shoulder TELLING you what to do every step of the way.

Relax, enjoy, experiment - It's all part of the deal.

Keep us posted

 

[ronrryan]

Flints aside, there are some of us (I am one) who think that picking the vent each shot to be sure the pan flash has ready access to the barrel powder is "a good thing" as Martha says. Others never bother and shoot well. Good smoke, Ron in FL

 

[trent/OH]

If you live anywhere near Clanton Alabama contact me privately and I'll put you in contact with some BP fanatics.

 

[faw3]

Dont know that this will help at all but the first time Ive got to shot this Flintlock in a few weeks (I had got new flints and 1 agate) like you Ive had a world of problems but I just keep reading here and trying this and that, the agate I think its called didnt work at all at first, I started puting little flat chips of lead on top of the "flint" second try and BOOM faster than I pulled the trigger, it was the the edge of attack on frizzen, but first I could get it to spark much with the best flints, I pulled the lock and made the touch hole outside a little coned shaped (it was about under the pan, and deepend the pan at that spot) that got it to shooting sometimes, yesterday it shot 23 times without a miss (now Ive doomed myself ) Just keep trying one thing at a time and you'll get it right and keep a eye on here. FRED happy as ... :hatsoff:

 

[jweston]

cptleo. You are right, I guess, about the "working in a vacuum" issue. I certainly don't have anyone standing over my shoulder telling me what to do, but I also don't have anyone standing over my shoulder (kindly) telling me when I am way off base. The good thing about the forum has been helpfulness of other participants.

My major frustrations with flinting has been that I seem to have good days and bad days and I can't tell why. I think that it comes down to flint issues.
What I have learned (through trial and error and the assistance of the forum):

I have learned not to cram the residue down the barrel to block the vent.

I have learned to remember to put the powder first, then the ball.

I have learned (and this is not PC) that a wooden ramrod can not tolerate my abuse and solid brass works best. Oh and a hole through the top allows you to put a nail through to allow you a better grip.

I have also learned to mark my ramrod, so that I know when to stop when I am loading the ball, so as not to compress the charge too much.

Oh, and the 490 ball with 80 grains can still blow a sizeable hole through my 1/4 aluminum target plate.

BBurg

 

[mike alexandre]

Regret to tell you than even very good shooters have not so good days - thats black powder shooting. What it does give is the rooky a chance because you will have ok - good and very good days and thats when you get to beat the hot shots. Keep practiseing.

 

[faw3]

I've also found that tilting the rifle to lock side before I shoot and this is with 2,3, and 4f for primming will get it to go right off none of the flash and now wait a min while it goes off :rotf: Change flints then how the tip hits frizzen and you'll get the rest worked out, 2 months ago I was lucky to get 1 out of 10 now even while rainning and just standing on porch my kid and me got 15 or so shots out with only one that didnt Boom the first time. Good luck you'll get it. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Grenadier1758]

One more comment and one that can often overlooked by people new to muzzleloading and flintlocks. You have been reading the forums so I am assuming that you are using a good quality black powder. The more commonly found replica black powder requires far more heat for ignition than black powder.

I use GOEX or Scheutzen powder in my guns.