Help identify my gun

[LWelch]

Just picked up a flintlock, don't know anything about them, this one has been neglected, some rust, should I disassemble and clean, what's best to get rust off etc.

 

[necchi]

More; http://s1147.photobucket.com/albums/o555/aviatorlw39/

 

[Number19]

This is an amazing find. It appears to be Allentown-Bethlehem school. The simplicity of the gun - its lack of carving, moulding and limited decoration - would suggest it is a "working man's" gun. Few guns of this nature survive. I am unable to suggest a dating, but this gun should be evaluated by an expert and possibly restored by a professional restorer. Was the "patch box" filled in or was it "fake" for decorative purposes only?

 

[Number19]

I would like to add: OK, all you "experts", here is a "real" American flintlock. Why am I the only/first one to comment on this rifle? Why don't you put your knowledge on the line?

 

[Bruce Bogart]

Maybe the right person has not popped in yet? I'm no expert, so I'll just say I'll wait for the more informed. I don't want this to fall into another one of those posts!

 

[jdkerstetter]

I'm no expert either...just a student...but I'm not as convinced as Number19....though I would gladdly be wrong and have a prviously unpublished gun show up.

Nothing is right about this. Add a picture of the cheekpiece side to photobucket and let us know when it's there.

Thanks, J.D.

 

[Elnathan]

I think it is a reproduction of some kind, but I don't know which one.

 

[Number19]

The distinguishing feature of the Allentown-Bethlehem school is the double curve on the lower line of the stock. I seem to see this in the photo. The lock appears to be a later style - 4th quarter of the 18th century,or even 19th century, but is unlike anything I have seen before. The round back style is more representative of the percussion rifle. Perhaps this is an American made lock. The sideplate is unique.

 

[Number19]

I think it is a reproduction of some kind, but I don't know which one.

I really agree with both you and jdkerstetter that there is too much that is not "right" about this gun and I may be wrong that there is the typical A-B school curve on the stock. But if the lock is original to the gun, it has the appearance of "old". It really needs to be looked at by a professional.

 

[jdkerstetter]

The distinguishing feature of the Allentown-Bethlehem school is the double curve on the lower line of the stock. I seem to see this in the photo.

I see it too, as well as the Roman nose but the wrist? Lower and upper forestock? Lock panels? Not right.

The lock appears to be a later style - 4th quarter of the 18th century,or even 19th century, but is unlike anything I have seen before. The round back style is more representative of the percussion rifle. Perhaps this is an American made lock.

.[/quote]Looks like a cheap import to me if not fake all together...the roller frizzen is curious...why would anybody bother to fake that?

The sideplate is unique.

Unique is one word for it....a polite one.

Great thread anyway. Thanks, J.D.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I'm sure a trained eye will be by shortly to end this.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Bruce Bogart]

Mr 19 I get the impression that it may be a restock of some parts off an older gun. I think your opinion of the lock is right on IMHO. Hard to tell from my perspective. The muzzle end of the stock appears a good bit short of the muzzle. I bet it has an interesting history.

 

[Number19]

Note in photo 4 the use of barrel pin instead of a wedge.

 

[Number19]

As unique as the sideplate is, look at the precision of the workmanship and the carving. This is original to the gun.

 

[Elnathan]

The distinguishing feature of the Allentown-Bethlehem school is the double curve on the lower line of the stock. I seem to see this in the photo. The lock appears to be a later style - 4th quarter of the 18th century,or even 19th century, but is unlike anything I have seen before. The round back style is more representative of the percussion rifle. Perhaps this is an American made lock. The sideplate is unique.

There is no double curve - the triggerplate is coming out of the stock and obscures the line of the wrist. Look at picture number two.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I do not qualify as a trained eye by any streach of the imagination but...

What I see in pic 4 is the huge web of wood between the barrel and ramrod, in pic 2 the lock stands out as being "not right", the toe area of the frizzen ?

I'll reserve for more schooled individuals, but my gut says "nope"

 

[hanshi]

As unique as the sideplate is, look at the precision of the workmanship and the carving. This is original to the gun.

I don't see any carving on this stock; it looks plain to me.

 

[Number19]

...I'll reserve for more schooled individuals, but my gut says "nope"

"Nope" what? I think we're all agreeing that it is not a "traditional" A-B school rifle. But "no" you don't think it is a 19th century flintlock?

I would add that the thimbles don't look right and the ramrod is certainly a replacement. And the front sight doesn't look "right" for an 18th century gun, but I've only studied "early" guns so for a later period gun I'm not sure.

 

[Number19]

As unique as the sideplate is, look at the precision of the workmanship and the carving. This is original to the gun.

I don't see any carving on this stock; it looks plain to me.

No, I meant the carving/shaping of the wood around the sideplate. There is very close tolerances. The wood was shaped to precisely fit the sideplate.

 

[Number19]

The distinguishing feature of the Allentown-Bethlehem school is the double curve on the lower line of the stock. I seem to see this in the photo. The lock appears to be a later style - 4th quarter of the 18th century,or even 19th century, but is unlike anything I have seen before. The round back style is more representative of the percussion rifle. Perhaps this is an American made lock. The sideplate is unique.

There is no double curve - the triggerplate is coming out of the stock and obscures the line of the wrist. Look at picture number two.

I tend to agree. I found I could zoom in and this becomes more apparent on photo one. I can also see the the trigger guard is very plain in photos one and two. It's looking to me like this is a gun produced by some backwoods gunsmith or maybe only a blacksmith. Could it be late 18th century? Or more probably, first quarter 19th century? Or, more later, still? But the distinguishing feature of this gun is the quality of workmanship on the lockplate side of the gun.