Help identifying this smoothbore

[snagg]

My son bought this from a fella he works with. It was such a good deal he just couldn't pass it up. Neither of us are sure what it is, though. I suspect it to be a fowler or a fusil?? But one or the other could jump right at me and I wouldn't know the difference for sure. If it doesn't work out he'll put it on the wall, but he is really hoping to find out about it and use it for turkey or small game.

These are things that I know for sure:
1) On the lock plate there is a name Tower stamped on it. Also the letters G R with somesort of coats of arms or insignia above the G R.
2) Using calipers it measured between a 12 ga. and a 11 ga. My error in not paying closer attention. :cursing: The f/l is at his house now so I can't double check it til later.I can check this again if it becomes an issue.
3) The barrel has a number 2494 on opposite side of lock.
4) The barrel alone is 41 1/2" long
5) There is only one sight, mounted to the front end of barrel. A rectangular block. No rear sight.
6) The barrel appears to be pinned to the stock with small dia. brass pins.
7) The flash hole is very small in dia. and does not have a removable liner.
8) It appears to be very old.
9) It is a flinter.

Basically that's all i can remember or took note of. I will be sure to take a more accurate bore measurement before we do much more with it. He's hoping to use it fro turkey this spring.
I also encouraged him to register on this site.

snagg

 

[snagg]

Well the pics turned out like$%&(&^% :cursing: I'm only hoping enough detail is there for any help you's can give us. Some folks shouldn't be allowed to use a camera and I happen to be one of them.

snagg

 

[sixoclockhold]

brown bess

 

[Many Klatch]

You have a copy of a British Brown Bess. The original assault rifle. The front sight is actually a bayonet lug. It shoots a .72 ball over 2F powder. It is a good strong gun that will knock down any game on this continent (don't know if I would try a Grizzly though).

This is the gun that the British Army used from the French and Indian war to the War against Napoleon in 1812.

Tell you what, I'll give you $300 no questions asked :winking:

Many Klatch

 

[paulvallandigham]

The G R on the gun stands for King George( ie. G= george, R= Rex) But, you see these marks on some of the replicas, also. And they were not made in England at the Tower armory! Only a close visual examination will tell if this gun is an original, or a copy( replica). There should be other proof markings on the barrel- often on the bottom, and often some markings on the inside of the lock plate, the inside of the buttplate, the inside of the trigger guard, and sometime on the plate opposite from the lock, again, un its underside. Sometimes there will be military markings on the barrel rings, and endcap, too.

I don't think its the best choice for hunting Turkeys, but with the right load it will do the job. If ou have a museum available fairly close, call the curator, and see if they have someone on staff who can look at the gun for you and tell you if this is an original. Chances are that its a repro, but it would be nice to know. An Original would be worth so much money you would not want to be shooting it. There is a fine collection at the NRA building in Fairfax Va., and also at Williamsburg of original Brown Besses. At some of the recreated forts from the Colonial Period, you will find collections of firearms, including originals, and often there will be someone on staff you can look to for help in identifying your gun.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

That "squashed" trigger guard is common on Japanese made Brown Bess repros. Quality is usually quite good on these guns.

 

[Okwaho]

I agree. That flat bottomed guard seems to be typical of Japanese guns and the frizzen stall is typical of some reenactor.It's a short land pattern{ 2nd model} Brown Bess.I sold one a few years back in great condition for $500.00 and with all the Indian long land pattern Besses coming over,these don't sell as well as they did before since they're only correct for Rev. War.
Tom Patton

 

[trent/OH]

Sure looks like my Jap-made Brown Bess, except my barrel is still nice and shiny, and yours seems to have been browned. The lock springs tend to be very powerful, but sometimes you can almost read by the light thrown by the sparks. I use 1" flints and roundballs of .690, .715, or .735 caliber.
"More fun than a person should be allowed to have."

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The story that I heard was that when the original Bess was shipped to the gun maker in Japan (Miroku?), the trigger guard was bent in transit. Having never seen an original Bess, the Japanese copied everything exactly as they received it. Hence the odd appearance of these guns. Two hundred years from now, they'll probably be discussing this rare and unique variation of the Brown Bess and putting forth well considered theories on the function of the non-standard triggerguard.

 

[Parzifal]

Nice..... clean her up and enjoy!!!!


Rob

 

[Vairochana]

Very nice looking Bess- a lot sleeker than some of the copies I have seen (it is a copy isn't it?)

 

[snagg]

Thanks for the replies and help.
Now. Only one more question.
I'm used to removing the barrel on my T/C Hawkens for cleaning. Pop out the brass wedge and I'm ready to clean. This f/l would require much more work to get the barrel off the stock to scrub in a bucket of soapy water. What steps to you take to properly clean the inside of barrel?? I hate to have a lot of water going down all over the stock. Any tips??

Thanks, snagg

 

[Okwaho]

You don't need to remove the barrel to clean but if you feel the need then gently tap the pins out so that you can put them back in the same hole in the same direction. The locks on these guns are often a little tight coming out so back out the lock bolts a little, the tap them in,repeating the process until the lock is loose. DON'T pull the lock out by the hammer lest you damage the tumbler.My son has a bess like this one and shoots it regularly in reenactments. I suspect that it's been at least 8-9 years since the barrel was out and that was when Kit Ravenshear converted it to a long land pattern{first model}. Take the lock and dunk it in some hot{or cold} water cleaning the powder residue with an old toothbrush.Then put it in the oven at about 150 deg.til dry, then oil and replace.
Enjoy it
Tom Patton

 

[Ridge]

Very nice Brown Bess.

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Definitely a Miroku "Brown Bess". Flattened triggerguard, exaggerated lock points, no sling swivels. It's probably about 25 years old, and would work fairly well on turkey out to about 25 yards with a 1 1/4 ounces of shot, and 3 drams of powder.

Some of the Miroku locks were poor sparkers, but you can fix that easily enough. You'll have a lot of fun with it.