Help: Lack of loading data for .69 caliber.

[John Spartan]

New to blackpowder but as a lifelong shooter, and armchair historian, I recently picked up a (replica) Pedersoli .69 caliber 1777 Charlieville. Beautiful rifle.
Also picked up, on recommendation, the Lyman Black Powder Handbook and Loading Manual. But....

The Pedersoli came with a generic little chart for recommended loads that maxed out at .58 caliber.
Didn’t sweat this as I had the Lyman book but, while chock full of good generic info on the sport, it’s load data seems geared toward rifled barrels and also maxing out at .58 caliber. Only one smoothbore chart for the .75 Brown Bess.

Anyone know of a book or a good website for load data for a .69 caliber smoothbore?

 

[smoothshooter]

With all muzzleloading long guns you can use one grain of powder per caliber ( 45 grains for .45 caliber, 36 grains for .36 caliber, etc. ) when shooting balls.
Work up or down from there.

 

[John Spartan]

Thank you. Have seen that but its nice to have confirmation from experience.

 

[R-71]

I think the US load for 69 flint locks was 110 grains with some of that being the priming charge.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The US load would be a paper wrapped 0.670 round ball. I don't recommend priming from the paper cartridge with a live round.

 

[John Spartan]

How come?

 

[Ponderosaman]

My pop’s 69 is what I used for deer hunting back in the day. I liked 90 grains and round ball. Mini-balls with my dad’s 69 (smoothbore) weren’t very accurate. When shooting off hand, my left hand nearer to me than the forearm was more accurate for whatever reason.

 

[SDSmlf]

The US load would be a paper wrapped 0.670 round ball. I don't recommend priming from the paper cartridge with a live round.

How come?

You will have a primed gun as you are ramming the main charge and ball home. If things go wrong, they will go very wrong. Recommend and required at a lot of ranges and shoots to prime the pan after the main charge and ball are loaded.

 

[John Spartan]

Ah okay. Did know that was a range rule for some places and I can’t argue the increased safety factor for that Day of Bad Luck.

 

[user 53846]

I use 90 grns 2F in mine For deer, 110 grns 2F for Elk and Bear, although the 90 grains have punched through all three. Longer barrel made need a bit more juice to get the ball to where you want it. I have a 24" barrel on my Gun.

 

[shaman]

You will have a primed gun as you are ramming the main charge and ball home. If things go wrong, they will go very wrong. Recommend and required at a lot of ranges and shoots to prime the pan after the main charge and ball are loaded.

One thing I added to my Brown Bess' kit was a Hammerstall.

I don't intend to ever prime before loading, but there are instances where an extra bit of safety is good nonetheless. I made mine out of a scrap of leather and had it stiched up in under 15 minutes.

 

[dave951]

I shoot 65g 3f Swiss in my competition smoothbore.

 

[FlinterNick]

The french used around 80-90 (charge and prime) grains of what I’d call 1.5F powder with a paper cartridge and a .65 caliber round ball. Some records say 100 grains were used.

The french cartridges were unique in that they were folded over / crimped and waxed on the bottom, they actually contained No choking threads or tie offs. These would of course stand up if seated on a flat surface.

One thing to note, french guns were actually between .69 and .72 caliber, they had to be a minimum of .69 and not over .72. Many of the earlier 1717’s - 1766’s are in .72 caliber, which means they could have taken a ball in paper up to around .67 without having too much concern over fouling, a .69 ball would be putting the musket to its limitations.

I personally use 80 grains of 1F in my charlevilles and prime with 2F, and a .66 ball that i mould.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Ah okay. Did know that was a range rule for some places and I can’t argue the increased safety factor for that Day of Bad Luck.

Well it's not for "some places"...

The "combat loading procedure" for your musket was to open the cartridge and use some of the powder in the cartridge to prime your pan, (soldiers didn't carry priming horns you see) and THEN the soldier would pour the remaining powder down the barrel, followed by ramming down the ball in the now empty paper cartridge. So that meant ramming down with your hand in front of the muzzle, while the musket is fully capable of being fired.

LD

 

[FlinterNick]

Well it's not for "some places"...

The "combat loading procedure" for your musket was to open the cartridge and use some of the powder in the cartridge to prime your pan, (soldiers didn't carry priming horns you see) and THEN the soldier would pour the remaining powder down the barrel, followed by ramming down the ball in the now empty paper cartridge. So that meant ramming down with your hand in front of the muzzle, while the musket is fully capable of being fired.

LD

And sometimes you had the nervous nellies that loaded 3, 4 and 5 rounds on top of another and would eventually blow up like a Russian Sub.

But what the heck did they do with the prime ? did they prime 3-5 times, the pan wouldnt’ close.

 

[John Spartan]

The french used around 80-90 (charge and prime) grains of what I’d call 1.5F powder with a paper cartridge and a .65 caliber round ball. Some records say 100 grains were used.

The french cartridges were unique in that they were folded over / crimped and waxed on the bottom, they actually contained No choking threads or tie offs. These would of course stand up if seated on a flat surface.

One thing to note, french guns were actually between .69 and .72 caliber, they had to be a minimum of .69 and not over .72. Many of the earlier 1717’s - 1766’s are in .72 caliber, which means they could have taken a ball in paper up to around .67 without having too much concern over fouling, a .69 ball would be putting the musket to its limitations.

I personally use 80 grains of 1F in my charlevilles and prime with 2F, and a .66 ball that i mould.

A “French style cartridge”, with a .65 caliber ball is what I currently use in my Pedersoli French repros.
Measured the bores on arrival but now forget. Real close .69 but I forget exactly…or of they are all roughly the same. Note to self.

 

[springfield art]

New to blackpowder but as a lifelong shooter, and armchair historian, I recently picked up a (replica) Pedersoli .69 caliber 1777 Charlieville. Beautiful rifle.
Also picked up, on recommendation, the Lyman Black Powder Handbook and Loading Manual. But....

The Pedersoli came with a generic little chart for recommended loads that maxed out at .58 caliber.
Didn’t sweat this as I had the Lyman book but, while chock full of good generic info on the sport, it’s load data seems geared toward rifled barrels and also maxing out at .58 caliber. Only one smoothbore chart for the .75 Brown Bess.

Anyone know of a book or a good website for load data for a .69 caliber smoothbore?

Of course technically you have a Musket, not a rifle! I have one, also. I bet many guys will offer advice, mine I only used for blanks. They're pretty adaptable on the powder charge, though. 60-75 grains should be a good starting point.

 

[Historian]

With a . 69 cal I would start with 100 grs of 2Fg.

 

[ord sgt]

In my Charleville, I use 60 grains FFg behind a .678 roundball, no patch. Same load for shot and wads. Buck and ball, I use a wad first, then the B&B

 

[springfield art]

I know the Dixie catalog has a listing of all the various "good starting standard loads" for every gun in their catalog. Dia. ball, wt. of charge, etc.