I need some advice on how to shoot a C&B revolver a remington to be more specific. Off the rest my 25 yard groups are good but off hand not so much. I think I am flinching but I dont know how to keep myself from doing so. I am also unsure as to how to hold the thing since I will have to shoot it one handed which is something I am not used to. Any advice would help and thank you for your time.
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This sounds like a job for.....Smokin50..
I found concentrating on the sights and squeezing the trigger so slow and keeping the sight on the target that you really don't know when it will go off will eliminate the flinching and tighten your groups..
I found concentrating on the sights and squeezing the trigger so slow and keeping the sight on the target that you really don't know when it will go off will eliminate the flinching and tighten your groups..
I thought I was doing that until I pulled the trigger and I noticed the dreaded flinch. The trigger is light and crisp so I know it is all mental I just dont know how to get away from the habit. I dont do this with the rifle just the pistol for some reason
Dave Rosenthal
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ian45662 said:
Hi Ian,
The first thing I (we) need to know is what types of hand guns are you used to shooting now? A brand new hand gun shooter doesn't have a common frame of reference, whereas someone who shot sporting firearms in the past might have a life experience that I (we) can build on.
Since you've shot the Remmy off of a rest, I will assume that you know about safe handling and loading. As far as strong-hand only technique, the most important thing to master is trigger control. That's when the sear lets the hammer fall onto the cap. Knowing when this is going to happen by "feel" and being able to hold-off when you get tired of holding the hand gun up and aiming at the target is the key to grouping well.
The western style guns are designed to flip the barrel upwards upon ignition. It's because of the design of the hand grips. Your grip on the hand gun is a controllable variable and only through extensive practice will you be able to repeat exactly what happens upon most ignitions. Being comfortable holding the Remmy until it feels like an extension of your hand takes practice. Question: Will you be doing something else with your weak hand? Are you reenacting in a scenario where you only use one hand to shoot? If so, you need to also practice "slip-cocking" the revolver by working the hammer with only your thumb!
In addition to the grip, you have to learn not to anticipate the recoil and unconsciously lower the barrel just prior to ignition. With an UNLOADED hand gun without nipples installed, try pointing the gun at a fixed point on the wall. Then using trigger control as previously mentioned, squeeze the trigger and watch to see if the gun moves at all as the hammer falls. It shouldn't budge! This dry-firing technique works really well and will help to correct your flinch!
Using a centerfire revolver with just a couple of rounds in it (and spent cases to fill the empty chambers) is the best way to overcome a flinch, cause you're planning on a recoil situation with every hammer drop. The revolver should be cocked to single-action when doing this. Practice doing this until there isn't any difference in the way the hammer drops whether or not the gun fires and you've mastered your flinch! If the gun "shakes" as the hammer falls, or if it visibly moves/lowers you've still got to work some more.
Simple practice to obtain muscle memory with an unloaded hand gun is as easy as cocking the hammer back and aiming (at a fixed point in the room) with your strong hand while you're watching TV. Just don't snap the trigger onto the nipples as this will damage them. Instead, hold the hammer with your thumb, squeeze the trigger and carefully lower the hammer onto a nipple. Wait a few seconds, breathe, then repeat again. I do this and even switch hands so that I can shoot with both hands at the same time.
So let us know what you've shot already and we're all here to help!
Dave
I have shot a little bit of everything from the C&B revolvers all the way to the most modern of handguns and I seem to have the most luck with the modern guns and that may be because I use 2 hands with them but I am going to start shooting cap and ball in competition this year and I can only use one hand. I have shot C&B off and on for ten years or so but I have never really tried shooting them for accuracy and now trying to do it one handed has presented some challenges. I had no idea I could dry fire the gun if I take the nipples out I will have to try that over the next few days and then get back out to the range
Len Graves
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One of the things I was taught by an old pistol instructor is the ball and dummy method. Load only three of your chambers, alternately or randomly. Put caps on all the nipples Index the cylinder so you can't tell which are live and which are "dummies". Fire the pistol remembering how the sights looked when you had a "dummy". This may take a few times, but it's amazing what you learn about yourself. This is a good way to stop flinching or to see if flinching is your problem. Not the only solution, but, something to try. Good luck
token tory
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In addition to '50's comments, which are spot on.
How you pick up a pistol is a learned skill.
The center-line of the barrel & fame should be dead strait on to the forearm with the wrist not cocked either.
Try this to acquire a good "point":
Hold an empty pistol by the top, with the off or weak hand, so that the grip area is clear & the pistol is facing away from you in a shooting position. Now with the strong side hand vertical & the thumb to the inside of your body line, point all the fingers & the thumb strait away from you without bending any fingers. There should be a slight gap between the inside of the thumb & the inside of all the fingers.
Now push that hand onto the rear of the pistol grip till the rear of the grip is firmly inserted into the web of the thumb & the pocket of the palm. You can "slide" the pistol back into the strong hand if this feels more natural. Now & only now close the fingers (except the trigger finger) & thumb to grasp the grip fully with the bottom of the grip NOT poking into the base of the palm. Once you have the pistol firmly grasped you can release the other hand.
Looking directly along the forearm the barrel, wrist & bones of the arm should be a continuous unbroken line.
If you make a point of picking the pistol up this way for a while it'll become second nature eventually, but this takes a lot of repetition to train a "muscle memory".
Frequently a grip that is "off" will make perceived recoil harsher than needed & this will add to the tendency to flinch.Getting a good pinch-free grip may well help.
Another thing to consider. NO-one can hold a pistol utterly still, it just isn't possible. Based on that you can use this trick to your advantage.
First you need a "natural" point of aim. Everything else comes from this base.
Adjust you angle of the feet & so on till the sights remain pointed at the target center even if you intentionally close the eyes. Try it, if the sight is to the right when you open them, angle slightly to the right to compensate. The same vertically.
Now that you have a good grip & a good point of aim, imagine a large letter "D" out in front of the target. Line up with the sights at the bottom left of the "D" (for a right hander)Now as you inhale the sight will "walk, or climb" up the "D". if the sight passes the bull don't try to force it back, instead let the breath out allowing the muzzle & front sight to trace the curved part of the "D", back to where you started. Each shot, or setup for a shot repeats this breathing D cycle.
Start with one piece of the puzzle described. Once you're comfortable with that, then go on to the next, building one piece at a time till you get them all. :2
How you pick up a pistol is a learned skill.
The center-line of the barrel & fame should be dead strait on to the forearm with the wrist not cocked either.
Try this to acquire a good "point":
Hold an empty pistol by the top, with the off or weak hand, so that the grip area is clear & the pistol is facing away from you in a shooting position. Now with the strong side hand vertical & the thumb to the inside of your body line, point all the fingers & the thumb strait away from you without bending any fingers. There should be a slight gap between the inside of the thumb & the inside of all the fingers.
Now push that hand onto the rear of the pistol grip till the rear of the grip is firmly inserted into the web of the thumb & the pocket of the palm. You can "slide" the pistol back into the strong hand if this feels more natural. Now & only now close the fingers (except the trigger finger) & thumb to grasp the grip fully with the bottom of the grip NOT poking into the base of the palm. Once you have the pistol firmly grasped you can release the other hand.
Looking directly along the forearm the barrel, wrist & bones of the arm should be a continuous unbroken line.
If you make a point of picking the pistol up this way for a while it'll become second nature eventually, but this takes a lot of repetition to train a "muscle memory".
Frequently a grip that is "off" will make perceived recoil harsher than needed & this will add to the tendency to flinch.Getting a good pinch-free grip may well help.
Another thing to consider. NO-one can hold a pistol utterly still, it just isn't possible. Based on that you can use this trick to your advantage.
First you need a "natural" point of aim. Everything else comes from this base.
Adjust you angle of the feet & so on till the sights remain pointed at the target center even if you intentionally close the eyes. Try it, if the sight is to the right when you open them, angle slightly to the right to compensate. The same vertically.
Now that you have a good grip & a good point of aim, imagine a large letter "D" out in front of the target. Line up with the sights at the bottom left of the "D" (for a right hander)Now as you inhale the sight will "walk, or climb" up the "D". if the sight passes the bull don't try to force it back, instead let the breath out allowing the muzzle & front sight to trace the curved part of the "D", back to where you started. Each shot, or setup for a shot repeats this breathing D cycle.
Start with one piece of the puzzle described. Once you're comfortable with that, then go on to the next, building one piece at a time till you get them all. :2
Dave Rosenthal
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ian45662 said:
Only dry-fire as little as possible (even with the nipples removed), don't make it a steady diet. You don't want to "stretch" the hammer. That's why I suggested the modern revolver with all of the chambers filled with brass, but only a couple of live rounds.
I think that if you have the time, you should do what I did, and that is to shoot the revolver with both hands until you overcome the flinch, if possible. The trigger control is practically the same, and you'll be a little more comfortable with the two-handed hold. Knowing your sight picture is learned with two handed holds, then transferred to the strong-hand only style of shooting. From 25 yards you should be able to keep most of the shots in the black of the bull. As you progress, with a two-hand hold, you might be able to put every shot in the black.
When you develop the "sixth sense" of knowing that the shots "feel" right and can call all of your fliers, as the trigger sear breaks, then that's the time to switch to strong-hand only competition shooting. At that point you won't be fighting 10 years of flinching, you'll have developed new muscle memories, you're used to the sight picture and understand how far underneath the target bull you need to "hold"to hit the 10-X ring, and you'll have an idea of where the shots are supposed to land based upon knowledge gleaned from experience. Then go out and practice strong-hand only competitive shooting.
How many weeks of training time do you have prior to the first strong-hand only match? And how much time per day do you want to invest in being a better shot? Once I know this, I might be able to suggest a plan on your behalf. In the meantime, when you're home around the house, holster-up that empty sidearm and practice, practice, practice! It needs to become an extension of your mind & body. You have to feel it, and you have to believe in yourself a little too!
Good luck with your endeavors, and I'm always happy to help.
Dave
Dave Rosenthal
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Excellent post! You just covered lesson #1: Where to put your feet! And lesson #2: Obtaining a natural grip. Nice job!
As an aside, I've found it easier to shoot Colt revolvers due to their natural "pointability".
As an aside, I've found it easier to shoot Colt revolvers due to their natural "pointability".
Hi Ian,
Not sure where in "Southern OH" you live, but several of us use Wednesdays at the Columbus Muzzleloading Club as practice days. When the weather warms a little we will be shooting pistols along with rifles (now in cold weather, we only shoot rifles) each week. If you could come up sometime you could get some good practice and instruction. We all shoot in local competition, and some also shoot at Friendship in the Nationals. It could be good info for you, so come up sometime and join us. :thumbsup:
See ya, Jim/OH :hatsoff:
Not sure where in "Southern OH" you live, but several of us use Wednesdays at the Columbus Muzzleloading Club as practice days. When the weather warms a little we will be shooting pistols along with rifles (now in cold weather, we only shoot rifles) each week. If you could come up sometime you could get some good practice and instruction. We all shoot in local competition, and some also shoot at Friendship in the Nationals. It could be good info for you, so come up sometime and join us. :thumbsup:
See ya, Jim/OH :hatsoff:
Here's something I wrote a while back for a club newsletter.
Hope it helps.
I’m reading so often on our board about “Oh I can’t hit anything with a pistol” or “I won’t shoot the Pistol Postal because I can’t hit the paper”. Soooo, I figured maybe I could help some of you.
For those that don’t know, I have shot on Canada’s International Pistol Team. I have traveled to World Cups (Olympic Qualifiers) here in the States and Europe, so I think I understand a bit about pistol shooting. I’m not saying that I’m any good. I’ve always believed and understood that in any competition, somebody has to finish last, and it has been me more than once.
The most important thing you have to do is to do the same thing for every shot (be consistent). You’re going to hear me say this more than once. This isn’t all that much different than shooting a rifle.
Next, and the most difficult to believe and do, is to focus on the front sight. Not look at it, not see it, but focus on it. I have special glasses made that have a lens in them that gives me perfect focus out to the front sight. In return, the target is blurry, but that’s OK. Sight alignment is way more important than sight placement. The sight radius (distance between sights) is so much shorter than on a rifle, so a misalignment has more impact. One of our practice drills is to shoot on the back of a target. It gets rid of that distracting black blob. It lets you focus on the front sight. Hmmmm, I’ve said that before haven’t I. Must be important, and it really is. It’s one of the most important aspects, yet most difficult to believe and practice. It almost always results in a tight group of shots.
Your grip must allow you to pull the trigger straight back smoothly. Watch your sights and slowly add pressure to the trigger. Keep focus on your sight alignment. If you’re not happy with the way it looks, stop adding pressure. Resume when you’re back on target. Don’t snatch at the shot. By the time you react to a perfect sight picture and yank the shot off, believe me, it’ll be too late. Your grip must allow you to grasp it the same for every shot. Your trigger finger should be placed on the trigger-shoe at the same place for every shot. Normally the pad of the finger is what makes contact. It’s the part that has our fingerprints on it.
Follow-through, especially with a blackpowder gun, is important. You might say that well ”˜recoil throws the gun off target anyway, so how can I follow-through?’. What can happen, and this should help avoid it, is lifting your head or dropping the gun before the shot has actually left the barrel in order to see where you’ve hit. I’ve seen some people snap their head over to their spotting scope I’ll swear before the shot has hit paper. Trust me, the hole will still be there a couple of seconds later after the smoke has cleared. It won’t get any better or worse by waiting.
Your stance should be comfortable, and repeatable. For a one-handed hold, I would start with your feet about 45 degrees to the target. (The distance between your feet should be similar to when you’re standing talking for a while ”¦ it should be comfortable.) Your shoulders, hips and feet should be directly over each other, not twisted. For a 2 handed hold, I have no idea, as I only shoot one-handed, but I’m sure it should also be repeatable for every shot.
Many of these tips can also be used for shooting rifle. There really isn’t much difference between them, other than the length.
Dry-firing can be a helpful exercise. I prefer to use a blank light colored wall. This will help you focus on the front sight, and see what you do as the shot transgresses. Do you pull the front down, or do you pull the front sight off to one side as you apply trigger pressure. Don’t over-do it. Dry-fire can be a great learning tool, but it can also be very boring. Make them all quality shots. Keep the process fun.
See how easy it is. Now get out to the range and make some smoke.
I hope at least some of this will help. If you have any questions, don’t be afraid to PM me.
R.M.
.
Hope it helps.
I’m reading so often on our board about “Oh I can’t hit anything with a pistol” or “I won’t shoot the Pistol Postal because I can’t hit the paper”. Soooo, I figured maybe I could help some of you.
For those that don’t know, I have shot on Canada’s International Pistol Team. I have traveled to World Cups (Olympic Qualifiers) here in the States and Europe, so I think I understand a bit about pistol shooting. I’m not saying that I’m any good. I’ve always believed and understood that in any competition, somebody has to finish last, and it has been me more than once.
The most important thing you have to do is to do the same thing for every shot (be consistent). You’re going to hear me say this more than once. This isn’t all that much different than shooting a rifle.
Next, and the most difficult to believe and do, is to focus on the front sight. Not look at it, not see it, but focus on it. I have special glasses made that have a lens in them that gives me perfect focus out to the front sight. In return, the target is blurry, but that’s OK. Sight alignment is way more important than sight placement. The sight radius (distance between sights) is so much shorter than on a rifle, so a misalignment has more impact. One of our practice drills is to shoot on the back of a target. It gets rid of that distracting black blob. It lets you focus on the front sight. Hmmmm, I’ve said that before haven’t I. Must be important, and it really is. It’s one of the most important aspects, yet most difficult to believe and practice. It almost always results in a tight group of shots.
Your grip must allow you to pull the trigger straight back smoothly. Watch your sights and slowly add pressure to the trigger. Keep focus on your sight alignment. If you’re not happy with the way it looks, stop adding pressure. Resume when you’re back on target. Don’t snatch at the shot. By the time you react to a perfect sight picture and yank the shot off, believe me, it’ll be too late. Your grip must allow you to grasp it the same for every shot. Your trigger finger should be placed on the trigger-shoe at the same place for every shot. Normally the pad of the finger is what makes contact. It’s the part that has our fingerprints on it.
Follow-through, especially with a blackpowder gun, is important. You might say that well ”˜recoil throws the gun off target anyway, so how can I follow-through?’. What can happen, and this should help avoid it, is lifting your head or dropping the gun before the shot has actually left the barrel in order to see where you’ve hit. I’ve seen some people snap their head over to their spotting scope I’ll swear before the shot has hit paper. Trust me, the hole will still be there a couple of seconds later after the smoke has cleared. It won’t get any better or worse by waiting.
Your stance should be comfortable, and repeatable. For a one-handed hold, I would start with your feet about 45 degrees to the target. (The distance between your feet should be similar to when you’re standing talking for a while ”¦ it should be comfortable.) Your shoulders, hips and feet should be directly over each other, not twisted. For a 2 handed hold, I have no idea, as I only shoot one-handed, but I’m sure it should also be repeatable for every shot.
Many of these tips can also be used for shooting rifle. There really isn’t much difference between them, other than the length.
Dry-firing can be a helpful exercise. I prefer to use a blank light colored wall. This will help you focus on the front sight, and see what you do as the shot transgresses. Do you pull the front down, or do you pull the front sight off to one side as you apply trigger pressure. Don’t over-do it. Dry-fire can be a great learning tool, but it can also be very boring. Make them all quality shots. Keep the process fun.
See how easy it is. Now get out to the range and make some smoke.
I hope at least some of this will help. If you have any questions, don’t be afraid to PM me.
R.M.
.
Several EXCELLENT responses here, especially the ones that stress concentrating on the front sight and using a smooth constantly increasing pressure on the trigger.
Oh, and Yes, the gun moves back and forth and up and down when your aiming. Don't worry about it.
The gun will do this for the best shooters in the world. They learned to accept and ignore it. You should too.
I've noticed that most folks who flinch when they are shooting a pistol are folks who have shot big bore guns that have a heavy recoil.
Many of these people have had their hand or wrist hurt by these guns(although they would be the last to admit it).
Once that has happened, their brain subconsciously reacts every time they shoot.
It tells them, "GRAB THAT GUN HARD", "PUSH BACK"
"DON'T LET IT JUMP OUT OF YOUR HAND", and a number of similar things.
These thoughts are the worst thing around for accurate shooting and you must eliminate them from your mind.
There are several things about shooting a Black Powder pistol that can help teach your subconscious mind that it's wrong.
First, recognizing that black powder "kicks" more slowly so the gun does not "slap" back like modern guns do.
Second, knowing that you can reduce the powder charge so there is almost no kick at all. Sort of like shooting a .22 on steroids.
After shooting a few shots while holding the grip with just a little grip pressure and with the idea that, "I'm just going to let this thing move where it wants to when it fires." will soon convince you that a tight grip, pushing back when the gun fires and similar bad habits just aren't necessary.
Once this is realized, just keep your eye on that front sight, relax and let the gun fire when its ready.
Oh, and Yes, the gun moves back and forth and up and down when your aiming. Don't worry about it.
The gun will do this for the best shooters in the world. They learned to accept and ignore it. You should too.
I've noticed that most folks who flinch when they are shooting a pistol are folks who have shot big bore guns that have a heavy recoil.
Many of these people have had their hand or wrist hurt by these guns(although they would be the last to admit it).
Once that has happened, their brain subconsciously reacts every time they shoot.
It tells them, "GRAB THAT GUN HARD", "PUSH BACK"
"DON'T LET IT JUMP OUT OF YOUR HAND", and a number of similar things.
These thoughts are the worst thing around for accurate shooting and you must eliminate them from your mind.
There are several things about shooting a Black Powder pistol that can help teach your subconscious mind that it's wrong.
First, recognizing that black powder "kicks" more slowly so the gun does not "slap" back like modern guns do.
Second, knowing that you can reduce the powder charge so there is almost no kick at all. Sort of like shooting a .22 on steroids.
After shooting a few shots while holding the grip with just a little grip pressure and with the idea that, "I'm just going to let this thing move where it wants to when it fires." will soon convince you that a tight grip, pushing back when the gun fires and similar bad habits just aren't necessary.
Once this is realized, just keep your eye on that front sight, relax and let the gun fire when its ready.
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