Help Needed for Torn Patches

[longcruise]

My only other question is, what is it about the patch pictures says that it's a rough crown? When trouble shooting patches, what in particular are you looking for to tell a rough crown vs. rough rifling farther down the barrel?

You can't reliably tell by looking at the patches if it's crown or sharp edges on the rifling. Just go ahead and do the crown using one of the methods suggested above they all work. Just pick the one that suits your pocketbook, tools and abilities.

 

[greg hill]

Howdy Folks,

I've recently been going through Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy book/method and running across issues with torn patches. Shown in the attached pictures are the patches recovered for both denim and pillow ticking. The rifle is about a ten year old 50 cal. Lyman GPR and all shots were performed on a rest with the following process: Swab the bore with moose milk, load 75 grains of 3FG Swiss, cut patch at the bore, shoot target at 50 yards. For what it's worth the group was about 1.5" but I'd really like to have this dialed in before hunting season. The patches were soaked with a 6:1 ratio of Ballistol and water.

My first thoughts are to either switch to 2FG and see if that makes a difference, or run some steel wool in the barrel.

Any further thoughts and suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

[greg hill]

Hello barcarper,
I'm pretty sure you can get individual ball bearings of different size at you well stocked, favorite hardware store; at least I can at mine. A lot cheaper than McM-C since you don't have to buy large quantities.
Greg

 

[Salty]

I have read Dutch’s book several times. Good common sense advice.
Long story results. I no longer swab between shots. If it becomes difficult to load I will swab once with a barely moist patch so as to not leave the bore wet. I use his patch lube method with 7:1. I have also started using a homemade powder drop tube from copper refrigeration tubing. And a very lightly Criisco lubed 1/4” wad over the powder.
My groups have improved significantly off the table rest. Now if I could get similar results with off-hand.

 

[gunpa]

I don't think your load is too heavy at all. I've had this problem when my patches were too dry. I use mink oil. Try to keep the patches in a sealed container so they don't dry out. Your groups sound pretty good

 

[Relic shooter]

Simple Fix;
Smart move to post photos of your patches
Photos of your shredded patches indicate two possible issues.
Being that your getting tight groups, I suspect the edges of rifling in your bore has sharp burrs that are cutting the patches.

*If it were my rifle, first step would be to lap the bore with steel wool to remove any razor sharp edges on the rifling.
I've used the lapping process below to condition the bore of many new & pitted original guns to make them perform at their best.
SHARP CROWN ?
As others have mentioned a sharp crown at the muzzle can cut patches, consider posting a photo of the muzzle.
Bore Conditioning;
You will need a stout cleaning/loading rod with a swivel 'T' handle, my favorite are steel military surplus .50 cal. cleaning rods. they accept 10-32 cleaning jags. These rods work perfect as a range rods & to condition bores if a tapered sliding brass collar is used to prevent wear to the muzzle.
Treso makes these bushings or can make your own from brass stock.
#1- Depending on condition of the bore, in your case use a .45 caliber cleaning jag & wrap the end with 2-3 or 0004 grade steel wool so it fits tight & lap the bore until you feel even smoothness with no tight spots & finish with 0004 grade steel wool.
- In most cases this procedure resolves blown patches unless your PRB combination is too loose.
#2-Shredded patches like yours could also indicate the patches your using are too thin allowing blow-by gasses to shred the patches.
Fix;
-If you have access to a set of 6" dial calipers, write down depth to bottom of the bore's rifling & same to top of the rifling & post on the forum
& one or more of us will be happy to recommend the correct PRB combination, could be as simple as using slightly thicker lubed patches.

 

[flatcreek]

My only other question is, what is it about the patch pictures says that it's a rough crown? When trouble shooting patches, what in particular are you looking for to tell a rough crown vs. rough rifling farther down the barrel?

It's the easy answer.

I will agree...
The crown does look a little sharp, the fellas already gave you good fixes. So nothing to add there.

I didn't see a picture of the crown.

 

[Relic shooter]

Easy crown method,
Purchase a drawer pull screw at the hardware store, these have wood screw threads on one end & machine threads on the other end.
Screw the wood screw end into an oversize lead ball & attach other end in a hand drill.
Attach small piece of abrasive cloth to the ball with small piece of double sided carpet tape & go to fine grit or steel wool to polish after you get the crown the way you want with the hand drill.

 

[cynthialee]

It's the easy answer.

I didn't see a picture of the crown.

really blonde moment...

another poster down the line posted a pic of an over sharp crown

probably shouldn't have had that glass of wine before I posted

 

[Relic shooter]

Gonna be the oddball on this one...

How old is your patch material? Are they pre-lubed?

I ask because these patches look like some I had back a few years ago after shooting. Older patches, while not pre-lubed they did sit in a place with variable humidity for 2 years. And when I prepped them out I probably had some grease on my hands. Went with some new patches and it worked great again.

I will agree...
The crown does look a little sharp, the fellas already gave you good fixes. So nothing to add there.

I never did see photo of the crown,
The remedy I suggested has been used to successfully polish rough crowns & condition bores on well over a hundred new & original bores that were crusty from decades of no care.

 

[SDSmlf]

really blonde moment...

another poster down the line posted a pic of an over sharp crown

probably shouldn't have had that glass of wine before I posted

I was thinking you saw the photographs of the shredded patches and correctly went with obvious suspects. Well don’t let that happen again, after all, it is the internet…….

 

[Hawthorn1213]

Quick update: Ended up crowning the muzzle (before and after pictures) attached along with running some green scotchbrite down the barrel (about 100 passes.) I got the change to take the rifle out today and here were my results with denim and pillow ticking. They still look cut up to me, but not nearly as bad as before. What do you all think?

Grouping was decent at 50 yards. The holes circles in blue are denim, white are pillow ticking, and red was an off hand shot I took at the very end. (Never mind the bird shot holes in the box, I was using it to pattern a shot gun last week.)

Everything was done off a bench using the same load sequence and powder, balls, etc. as the first pictures that were posted.

 

[Hawthorn1213]

I never did see photo of the crown,
The remedy I suggested has been used to successfully polish rough crowns & condition bores on well over a hundred new & original bores that were crusty from decades of no care.

Thanks so much for the tips and tricks - Crown before (first picture) and after (second picture) are posted above. I'm not sure if you can tell from the photos but it was definitely pretty rough before I polished it.

 

[SDSmlf]

What do you all think?

Looks like progress. Do some more shooting, then reevaluate As long as things are improving all is good.

 

[ETipp]

Quick update: Ended up crowning the muzzle (before and after pictures) attached along with running some green scotchbrite down the barrel (about 100 passes.) I got the change to take the rifle out today and here were my results with denim and pillow ticking. They still look cut up to me, but not nearly as bad as before. What do you all think?

Grouping was decent at 50 yards. The holes circles in blue are denim, white are pillow ticking, and red was an off hand shot I took at the very end. (Never mind the bird shot holes in the box, I was using it to pattern a shot gun last week.)

Everything was done off a bench using the same load sequence and powder, balls, etc. as the first pictures that were posted.

I’m of the opinion that those patches are blown apart, not cut. I just went through this with one of my ML’s. As soon as I got some new ticking from October Country, everything came together and the patches look as if they could be reused. Same thickness (.018) as the other ticking that was blowing apart. Same load and same lube. Accuracy increased big time.

Most of the older patches looked very much like the ones in your pic.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm still seeing cutting from the lands and some cutting from the crown at the muzzle. You are making progress.