Help picking a style of rifle

[Bradg]

I'm new here so please take it easy on me. I'm looking to build my first flintlock and thinking about going with a Pecatonica River Rifle. I am looking for a 1775-1805 era KY long rifle. I was thinking about the lancaster style and am not sure of early or late style, or if this gun is a good representation of that era of Ky lr. Do you guys have any suggestions? Thanks for the help.

 

[Billnpatti]

My preference would be for the Late Lancaster with a swamped barrel. The Late Lancaster is a more slender and graceful rifle than the Early Lancaster.

If you have never built a gun before, I would make sure that the lock, trigger and tang were inletted for me. Also be sure that the breach plug is installed for you. That is not a job for a first time builder. The swamped barrel will cost more but it makes a world of difference in the how the rifle will handle and in how it looks. There is not a lot of metal removed from the barrel and it may not be all that aparent when you first look at it but when the gun is finished, you will notice the much more graceful lines of the gun and how it handles. When you order your rifle, go ahead and order some stock stain from them. Do not use modern stains since they will not look right at all. To brown your barrel, I highly recommend that you use Laurel Mountain Forge browning solution. It is a slower process than Birchwood-Casey's Plumb Brown. Plumb Brown is good for small parts but it is extremely hard to get a nice even brown on a barrel since you have to heat the metal before applying the Plum Brown and it is not easy to get an even heat the whole length of your barrel.

These "kits" are not like sticking together a plastic model airplane. They require careful, precise work. The secret to ending up with a gun that you will treasure for years and be proud of is Patience, patience, patience and more patience. If you feel yourself getting in a hurry, it is time to quit for the day before you bugger something up. Take your time and do it right. Think of yourself as a Neurosurgeon working in wood and steel. As Davie Crockett is quoted as having said "Be sure you are right and then go ahead."

An excellent reference is "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" When you are building a muzzleloading rifle, it will be your bible.

 

[Bradg]

Thanks for the insight, the late lancaster is my first pick. Yeah I plan on having the in letting and breech installed. I do have a question about the tang, in pictures they show them to be straight, will I have to bend it or will it come contoured?

 

[galamb]

I will start by saying that Pecatonica is great to deal with, carry quality parts from some of the best suppliers and provide their pre-carved stocks to other vendors as well (Track of the Wolf, Jedidiah Starr to name a couple).

The term Kentucky Long rifle kinda covers "every" rifle built in a number of States (Penn, Maryland, Virginia, Ohio etc) - so it's really "generic".

To put it another way - you have a "Car" (Kentucky Rifle) - your car is a Chevy (made in Maryland). The model is a Chevette (built by John Armstrong) - if you see where I'm going here.

The one (problem - and not really the right word) with trying to make a single stock that encompasses an entire region for an entire period is that you get a mish/mash of a "bunch of builders" and the end product, which stylistically "like" some of the rifles from that period/region, is not really representative of any given builder or an original rifle.

So, if we stick with Pecatonica's offerings, an Early Lancaster might look like the result if you took rifles from four or five builders of the period and stuck them in the blender. Again, what does a "Chevy" look like??? There are a number of models and not one "encompasses" ALL Chevy models.

Their J. Dickert looks "exactly like" a specific early Lancaster rifle.

Track of The Wolf's Issac Haines is also an "early Lancaster" but looks quite different than the Dickert.

The John Armstrong model (Pecatonica or Track), built as a flinter, which represents a "Maryland" rifle in the latter part of your stated period is every bit as much, as the two noted above, a "Kentucky Long Rifle", but looks almost nothing like the Lancaster's.

In the era you are looking at, which is roughly what is called the "Golden Age" (give or take a few years), there were many notable builders making rifles.

So you have many choices in your "era".

While Lancaster's are popular because they shoulder well and are easy to hold for most shooters (compared to many other builders/school styles) it has been my personal experience that absolutely the nicest rifle to hold/shoot is in the style built by J.P. Beck (Lebanon, PA).

If I was building from a precarve, the Beck kit from either Track, or one put together by Knob Mountain would be pretty high on my list if I was looking for a 1780-1800'ish longrifle.

You will get other great suggestions here - my opinion is simply that - my opinion. :grin:

 

[Bradg]

The track of the wolf kit says easy to build, would this be a better rifle to start with? Im not expecting it to be like the old CVA kits but I also dont want to get in over my head on the first, Im wanting to build it and enjoy it, I plan on hunting and using it.

 

[Grenadier1758]

No matter where you order your rifle or what style you choose, if you get the swamped barrel, pay for the installation of the tang, barrel and lock. That part of the build is critical to the proper function of your rifle.

I would suggest that you get the in-the-white kit. All the parts will be in the proper location and there is still a lot of work to do for final fitting and finishing.

 

[Billnpatti]

I have never built a Pecatonica gun so I can't say for sure. But, I would expect it to fit the stock contour pretty closely. You may have to do some final fitting with a file but overall, I would expect it to fit reasonably well since the stock is 90% inlet by them. The only way to know for sure is to call Pecatonica and ask them. Before you order, make a list of questions such as this and discuss the "kit" with them before ordering. Know what you are getting before ordering and there will be no significant surprises. Little surprises, probably but you want to avoid the big ones by discussing everything with them before ordering.

 

[Bradg]

Who sells an in the white kit that isn't going to cost a fortune, I was hopping to stay around $800 or less?

 

[galamb]

The track of the wolf kit says easy to build

The key word here is "build" as opposed to "assemble".

There is still some shaping, inletting, fitting, filing, staining, blue/browning metal parts - drilling and tapping, sanding etc.

 

[Bradg]

I'm not wanting a ready to assemble, I feel confident in some work for my first build and mainly to learn from it, then move on to a more in depth build.

I should say, I don't think I can afford a ready to assemble, and would like to have some work in it to feel some accomplishment with completion.

 

[hoochiepapa]

My first build was a Pecatonica River Late Lancaster kit. My wife about left me on that one, I was so excited I worked on it every day all day 'til it was done. I'm pleased with the outcome, it's my hunting rifle.
Get a good book on building and read it three times before you start. If you get impatient, walk away.

 

[Bradg]

Did you feel overwhelmed with the kit or just time consuming?

 

[hoochiepapa]

No, I did not feel overwhelmed, maybe because I'm stupid, and I was very excited.

 

[Bradg]

Thanks for your help

 

[Vaino]

My preference would be the early Lancaster...it does have a wider butt, but the length from the lock forward doesn't have to be thick and heavy.

The Lancaster style, whether early or late, is a very straight forward design that has carried over into the modern rifle. Not many LR designs did that.

Pictured below is an early Lancaster built in the style of a Isaac Haines LR w/ the thick butt, but w/ very trim upper and lower forestocks. This LR was built from a blank w/ very thin webs which might not be available on some early Lancaster parts sets. Thick webs are common in precarves irrespective of style....one of the reasons I prefer to start w/ a blank.

For a first parts set {kit} build. either the early or late Lancaster would be a good choice......Fred

 

[Grenadier1758]

I think you should give Tip Curtis a call. He has a simple operation, so you can't go look at his web site.

Tip Curtis
P.O. Box 203
Cross Plains Tn. 37049

615-654-4445
[email protected]

 

[Bradg]

Sir, that is a beautiful rifle

 

[Micah Clark]

Great comments . . I too am looking at a first time build, and was leaning toward TVM because they seem to do a lot of work with their kits before they get to the customer. I can't seem to find Tip Curtis' web site . . Pecatonica River's kits probably have better wood than TVM for the money . .been looking closely at them too. Not sure if they have in the white . . I'd do that nearly finished option, were it not for the money . . I am in the 700-800 range too. . may need to sell something to get more cash in the game for certain things that seem to be good ideas mentioned here.

 

[JackP]

Take my advice with a grain of salt, I am in the process of building my first flintlock rifle.

I thought I knew what I wanted to build and had planned on the build for many years.

First thing I did was to find this forum and looked at what others are doing. While looking at photos on the net one day I came across Dan Fruth's Dickert rifle and it spoke to me. Every thing , every plan went out the window.

I guess what I'm saying is look at a lot of photos and do what you like.

Jack

 

[Bradg]

Looking at TVM's website it looks like a late lancaster kit for $700 compared to about $725 with basic stock or $750 for grade 2. The only question I have is which is the better gun.