Help selecting between guns for elk hunting

[mnbearbaiter]

hey gang, im a past member who either let account expire, or maybe there was a crash, anyway im back! Im goin to get kinda long winded here so bear with me please :grin: A friend and i were drawn for CO elk unit 71 this year! Hes going to use a new fangled whizz banger, i on the other hand am stuck between two of my sidelocks, T/C Renegade 54 that i get really good prb accuracy w/85gr T7 ffg, over powder bore button, mink tallow lubed .015 cotton patch w/.530 rb! The other is kinda new to me, but would be a dream to hunt with, and its a T/C Tree Hawk 50, short little gun, 20" barrel that has a 1:20 twist i believe, got it for a song new in the box from a guy who didnt need it I have all summer to try and work up a conical load for it, so any suggestions would be great! They both have the T/C tang peeps on them, and i replaced factory front sight with the T/C fiber optics on both of them as well! Last question, im entertaining the idea of switching to musket caps to help ignite the T7 that im using, ive never had a problem before with the #11 hotshot nipple that ive used in the past, but if musket caps are that much hotter, T/C sells musket cap nipples for their caplocks for like $7/each!!!

 

[oletymepreacher]

Recommend the .54. Elk need to be hit hard, sometimes often. A 20 inch barrel may not be able to do the hit hard thing.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Easy answer for me, because I have the same Renegade that i'm using for elk this year.

Even though i'm using Swiss powder now. I've tested a lot of T7 in the gun. I have no problem with the stock nipples and Remington #11 caps. I've found the secret to shooting subs is to bang the barrel after leaning it in the direction of the lock to get the powder in the breech channel. If I forget that, i'll sometimes get a delayed ignition.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

Thanks Capper, i do knock the powder toward the nipple before i begin loading, kind of a piece of mind thing! Do i have a sufficient prb load for the beasts, or would it have to be a lil hotter? what about the ITX rb's, a safe replacement that would probably get more penetration? Ive only ever shot deer with the 54, but it did the job just like it did 150yrs ago :bow:

 

[BrownBear]

The 54 would be my hands-down pick between the two. Of course, I'd be keeping my eyes open for a GM 58 caliber drop-in barrel. Needed for elk? No. But dang, is 58 caliber ever addictive.

I know 71 pretty well, and you'll have fun there. Assuming you've drawn the muzzleloading season, be prepared for a little heat. The elk are pretty busy in the morning, but tend to climb for cool cover before the day is very old at all. They're slow to come down in the evening, often not moving till right at dusk or even waiting till after dark. It's a toss up whether to wade in for them early or to scout their movement routes and ambush them as they leave the lower areas.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Your load is fine, but try for a good side lung shot. I don't trust a PRB for a quartering shot.

Another option is the TC Maxi Ball. I tried them in my gun, and they're almost as accurate as the PRB.

The 430 gr hunk of lead does give you a good smack in the face though. It should plow through the shoulder and keep on going through the vitals.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

Yeah, i originally planned to shoot the prb vs conical in the gun to see which it preferred, but the first range session with a little education from this site proved to be right on with the prb! The gun cloverleafs at 25yds, fist size group at 50yds, a little bigger at 75yds, and probably 6" at 100yds so i was pleased since 100yds was my max, and that would have to be a perfect scenario, solid rest, etc! It would be broadside or quartering away only before id take a shot on an elk with it!

 

[Pete Gaimari]

The PRB is no doubt accurate in a Renegade. I'm just throwing out another option for you. You might be surprised how accurate the Maxi is. I was.

I've read the Maxi doesn't shoot for beans in some TC guns. I guess I got lucky that mine seems to shoot the PRB and Maxi well.

I may never hunt with a Maxi, but it's nice to know there is an option if I see the PRB is not doing the job I expect it to do.

If you see the 100 yd fpe of the Maxi compared to the PRB. You'll understand it's advantage. :wink:

 

[Vaino]

I've killed elk w/ both a .50 cal. 410 gr Buffalo Bullet in a TC Hawken w/ 1:48 and also a .54 w/ PRB w/ a 1:66 and both were equal as far as so called "killing power"....but the trajectory of the .54 PRB was much "flatter" than w/ the much heavier conical. Have hunted GMU 71 since 1986 and where in that area are you going to hunt? The San Juan Nat'l Forest holds a lot of elk but because of the number of hunters, the elk hide in the "hell holes" and it takes a lot of "traveling" to find them....Good luck on your hunt.....Fred

 

[David W.]

I'd go with the .54 for elk. The 1:20 twist in your .50 is for those modern sabots.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

We plan on hunting the area around the Lizard Head Wilderness Area! I will probably try conicals in both just to see what gun im most comfortable with! The fast twist of the Tree Hawk is due to its short barrel length! The info i found of others experiences with the gun is that it shoots shorter, modest weight conicals best with a moderate powder charge! It is a nice short, easily handling rifle, that if anything would be great for tree stand hunting! May have found my new rifle for my bear hunting excursions when i hunt over bait :hatsoff:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Ouch! Bait..

 

[tg]

The .54 sidelock with PRb will be plenty if you put the ball in the right spot avoid the shoulder bone, many use a .50 PRB and there are those who,need a large modern connical to kill these animals? you have what it takes to do it the traditional way and it may give you a bit more satisfcation than using what is the equivalant to a single shot cartridge gun (modern bullet)good luck and enjoy the journey.I would get as close as you can 75 yds is better than 100 for placement and power

 

[mnbearbaiter]

What do you mean Ouch? Here in MN bear are hunted over bait, totally legal! I do it every 2-3yrs! Hence my login name :v

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'm not a fan.

That's all.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

When it comes to guys who bait deer with corn i am also not a fan, but with the bear here in MN, and the thickness of the north woods a guy would never get a bear by any other methods and there would be too many nuisance bear complaints to count! Im with ya Capper!

 

[Bill Hall]

I've taken five elk with a .54 rb. One cow was taken using a little .54 with a 26" barrel I built to carry and perform like a renegade. She didn't go five yards before she fell. Take that .54 renegade with an rb, that combination is perfect for elk hunting. :thumbsup:

In my thinking, the .54 rb is just about the perfect elk projectile. It shoots flatter and faster than a heavy conical, but still packs enough wallop to cause some major damage. You don't need to compensate as much for range and it gets there sooner, so less need to calculate in your head where to put the sights at a certain range. Better for those fleeting shot opportunities, which pretty much defines elk hunting. Bill

 

[Rat Trapper]

I'd go with the 54. Try some Hornaday great plains bullets in your rifle. My 54 cal. TC Hawken shoots great with 120 grains of Tripple Seven 2F. That's a pretty strong load and don't go over it. I talked with TC and they told me I'd have no problems with it and I didn't. Your rifle may prefer a lighter load, say 100 grains. Make sure you put a felt wad over powder and under the bullet. In my hunting rifles when using Tripple Seven I use a hot shot nipple and CCI #11 mag caps. While the round ball will work, I would feel a lot better using a conical. The Hornaday great plains bullets load hard in my rifles, but shoot so well it is worth the extra time and trouble. You won't be shooting a lot of conicals once you get the rifle zeroed anyway.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

I could probably try it with a lil more powder! T7 is pretty hot, the 85gr im using now is equal to 100gr of black powder

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I've taken five elk with a .54 rb. One cow was taken using a little .54 with a 26" barrel I built to carry and perform like a renegade. She didn't go five yards before she fell. Take that .54 renegade with an rb, that combination is perfect for elk hunting. :thumbsup:

In my thinking, the .54 rb is just about the perfect elk projectile. It shoots flatter and faster than a heavy conical, but still packs enough wallop to cause some major damage. You don't need to compensate as much for range and it gets there sooner, so less need to calculate in your head where to put the sights at a certain range. Better for those fleeting shot opportunities, which pretty much defines elk hunting. Bill

What was your load for those elk kills?


I didn't want to give the wrong impression. I won't hunt with anything but a PRB. I was just giving him options.