Help selecting between guns for elk hunting

[Bill Hall]

I dunno, they may give a little extra penetration where its needed like on elk and other big stuff! Ive never shot an elk, what do all of you find as far as the rb's penetration and integrity?

Thinking back, I believe I've taken six elk with roundballs, five with a .54 and one with a .58. Four were complete pass-through shots in the chest area.

One that didn't exit was on a cow I shot quartering away. I hit her behind the ribs and the ball stopped somewhere in her chest. I never found the ball, but could clearly see the path it followed, about 30" of travel.

Another non-exiting shot was on a cow that was around 15 yards away. It was a perfect broadside shot, yet the ball bounced off a rib on her far side, and broke it, then zinged around inside her chest. That was with that little rifle I mentioned earlier. Funny thing though, my daughter used that same rifle a couple of years later, with the same load, and shot right through a cow's chest. Blew out a rib too.

Oh yeah, I shot a big bull between the eyes one time, and the ball just kinda vaporized in the bone of his skull. He danced around until I plugged him in the chest, which punched straight through him. I'm counting that one as a pass-through shot. :grin:

All these shots were taken with balls cast from pure soft lead. In my opnion, penetration just couldn't be any better. Bill

 

[CoyoteJoe]

As snowdragon's experience illustrates, it's all about shot placement, if it's right it doesn't much matter how large or small the caliber and if it's wrong pretty much the same holds true.
If one likes to shoot at the south end of a north bound bull you will certainly need the penetration of a heavy conical. If you have the will to wait for a better shot it will often come and if not it's far better to pass than to push your luck and loose a wounded animal.
Hunting with a muzzleloader places some inherent limitations on the hunter, isn't that the whole point? Choosing a ball over a conical imposes some additional limitations on the hunter. Choosing a smoothbore involves still more limitations. Being content to live with those limitations is what it's all about.
If you'd rather not have such limitations I've heard a .50 Barret does pretty well. :haha:

 

[StewartLeach]

I can only second all those who have endorsed the 54 cal, with either round ball or bullet. I have hunted with a 54 cal Renegade since 1985, and while I have other rifles from 40 to 58 cal, I keep going out with the Renegade.

Snowdragon said in a few words the other important thing- where you hit 'em counts for a lot. I won't pull the trigger unless I have a good hold just behind the shoulder and a third of the way up from the belly line. Don't mean to offend anyone, but I think shots quartering in from the front are a bad idea. You have to be sure you can get the ball/bullet into the soccer ball-sized heart-lung-major vessels area. Visualize where the soccer ball is, and what lies between your barrel and the ball.

That's high country you're headed for. Northeast rim is a string of 14'ers- Wilson, El Diente, etc. Get in shape. Try to arrive in the area a few days before hunting to acclimatize. Drink plenty of water- if not stepping behind a bush every hour or so, drink more water. Alka-Seltzer helps with the altitude headache.

Last piece of advice- if you aren't seeing critters, or fresh turds and tracks in half a day, move! Try going higher or lower. Don't be afraid to hunt the lower altitude pinon-juniper jungles- a lot of elk spend their whole lives down in the PJ's.

Above all, enjoy your hunt. I'll be hunting North Park in the late season, for a cow. Too hard to tenderize the antlers.

White Fox

 

[mnbearbaiter]

Thanks alot :hatsoff: I think ill stick to what i have with the 54 Renegade(.530 ball, Mink Tallow lubed .015 cotton patch, unlubed bore button), but may play around with powder charge! At the range i can shoot an indefinite amount of shots without cleaning, and i think that says alot of a "Solid" hunting load! Ive also heard that a "Hot" load down in low elevation turns into a load that a guy couldnt hit the broadside of a barn with at 5,000ft! Wonder if it has something to do with burn rate at the extreme elevation? I plan on reloading gun every morning with fresh prb, powder, etc, but has anyone experienced this before? I shoot 85gr of ffg T7, thats around 100gr of BP on the conversion scale thats provided, and i feel its an awesome load on my familiar whitetails, and the occasional coyote was never really fond of it either :haha:

 

[BrownBear]

ThankI plan on reloading gun every morning with fresh prb, powder, etc, but has anyone experienced this before? I shoot 85gr of ffg T7, thats around 100gr of BP on the conversion scale thats provided, and i feel its an awesome load on my familiar whitetails, and the occasional coyote was never really fond of it either :haha:

That's what we always do here in wet country. We mostly use CO2 dischargers, but when the CO2 runs out a ball puller works fine, too.

Coincidentally or not your load is a match for my hunting pard's in several 54's. And the results speak for themselves! :grin:

 

[mnbearbaiter]

How many discharges is a CO2 good for? We are goin in 2 days early, and the season is 9 days!

 

[BrownBear]

How many discharges is a CO2 good for? We are goin in 2 days early, and the season is 9 days!

Kinda depends on the individual discharger and how well it seals. And then there's the individual gun and how well the patched seals the bore, as well as bore size. I have one discharger that really shines- maybe a dozen 50 cal discharges against half a dozen 58 cal discharges. And that thing will sit for months without leaking.

I have another that only does 3 or 4 discharges and leaks out in a week. I'm getting ready to try lubing the o-ring a little to see if I can get a better seal. One of my pards has one that's much the same, while another has a discharger that's purely a one-shot deal.

In your situation, I'd just carry some spare CO2 cartridges and change them as needed. They're cheap and small, so NBD.

 

[luieb45]

I tried one of those things and it didn't work once! :cursing: I've found what works better is to put some black powder(preferrably 3fffg or 4ffffg) under the nipple and shoot the ball out.

 

[tg]

I would leave the Co2 for the paint ball guns and go with one of the more typical ways to remove a ball myself, these are just something else to carry that are really not needed.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

Huh, i will have to try extracting a loaded ball from my gun and see how tough it is! I have all the accessories for it, just never have had to do it! Here in MN i load the gun outside in a unheated wood shed, and thats where it gets stored at night after a hunt! The gun never gets brought into a warm vehicle during transport, and when its unloaded i place a rubber cap off a lubricant nozzel on the nipple to seal out moisture, i also cover end of gun with black duct tape and cut it flush around the octagonal barrel with a knife to seal out moisture! Ive done this and left a gun loaded for 6 days before shooting a fine buck on day 7 :hatsoff: I know this is "Traditionally Taboo", but i tend to try things that others dont, or are scared to, but prior to me doin this i did a test; i loaded a 50cal at the end of the season and sealed it up as stated previously! Come July i took it to the range and shot a 50yd bullseye, and the ignition was exact! That gun was loaded through 3 seasons and still went "BANG"! Now would i try this on my elk hunt :hmm:

 

[BrownBear]

In my experience you'll need some kind of "handle" for your rod to aid pulling a ball using a traditional ball puller on the end of the rod. Most are about the same size and weight as the CO2 thingamabob, so there's no practical advantage to one or the other. No sweat off my brow which I use.

I carry the handle and a ball puller attachment in the field and have the CO2 thingy waiting back in the truck, mostly because I fear rattling it around and causing the CO2 to leak out over the course of a day's hunt.

Just be aware that if you manage to pull the ball puller back out of the ball and leave the ball in the bore while piercing it, you aren't likely to get the ball puller to grab again. And the CO2 thingy certainly won't work when there's a hole in the ball! BTDT :rotf:

I also wouldn't think about using a ball puller if the brass end on a wooden ramrod isn't pinned to the rod. Sooner or later it's going to pull free from the rod as you're pulling a ball. BTDT too!

 

[tg]

"left a gun loaded for 6 days before shooting a fine buck on day 7 I know this is "Traditionally Taboo",

More than onceI have left a gun loaded for several weeks if it did not get soaked in the rain and still it went off and the Deer went down, I think it is a lot easier to trickle a bit of powder behind the ball and shoot it out if where one can do this rather than pull it, this works with capper or flinters, no real reason to unload unless going home or one fears that things have gotten wet, and if the barrel is kept down and the lock protected it can take a lot of weather, tucking the lock under the armpit is a good way to keep things dry and there are several ways to cover a cap/nipple, good luck on whatever you choose..just do not fear the funky old school methods without giving them a fair shake, you will often be quite surprised and there can be a certain extra level of accomplishment/satisfaction by doing so.

 

[Kenrup]

I've left my flinter loaded during the season. After the day I would block the touch hole with a toothpick. During the day I would occasionally prick the vent and prime with fresh powder. I didn't experience any ignition problems with this system.