Help to identify

[LeagueLes]

G'day,
I am new here and seeking help to identify, if possible, a caplock pistol. I have been told it may have been a flintlock and modified.
This pistol was never needed to be licensed or registered until recently.
It now needs registering, but no licence, so I am trying to get all info possible.
The barrel is 8.75 inches
Overall length is 15.5 inches
The bore is approx .67 inches.
It is stamped only in two places.
1. It has a M in a circle and a P on its own on the trigger guard.
2. It has a P on the muzzle retainer.

Thanks for ANY help.

Brian

 

[KABAR2]

Hi Brian,

Can you supply photo's of the lock? also does this have a ramrod channel? or? is there a spring keeper on the front band or is it a friction fit? the pistol is military and a conversion from flint... the hammer reminds me of some of the Austrian conversions....

 

[LeagueLes]

Well I will probably show my ignorance here, but here goes.

I assume the Spring keeper holds the ramrod in place. There is no spring so I assume the rod is held by friction. There is a tube under the barrel.

Once I found out about the pistol, I was going to search for a ramrod.

Hope these pictures help, but you have already told me more than I knew.

Let me know if these are the wrong pics.

Thanks.

 

[LeagueLes]

Oh, and I apologise for the mix up in my name.
It is Les, but my old email is in the name of Brian.

Long story.

 

[KABAR2]

Hi Les,

As far as name goes I was going by what you wrote on the bottom of first post..... thanks for the better photo's not a lot of info to work with but the hammer and the fact it had a ram rod makes me think Belgian horse pistol converted from flint...I know I have seen that hammer style on a conversion musket.. many of which made their way over here during the Civil War... how big is the bore?

 

[LeagueLes]

The bore is approximately 0.67 inches

 

[LeagueLes]

I have done a bit more searching and I am beginning to think this may be a Simeon North pistol. When I look at the muzzle, it appears to have some saw marks as if the barrel has been shortened. I have read that this was done to accommodate a metal ramrod after modification from flintlock.

Maybe not.

 

[MacRob46]

I am pretty sure that is not a Simeon North Pistol. The barrel band is completely wrong. Looking at it over all, especially the lock, I tend to agree that it is a Belgian made flintlock conversion.

 

[desi23]

The lockplate doesn't really look much like anything I have encountered that S. North made. It really looks central europpean, possibly austrian or german. belgium is also a possibility. The barrel may indeed have been shortened, hard to tell from your pics. Are there any other markings, proofmarks, etc? Most countries, at minimum, would have some type of acceptance mark for a military piece. Almost all had established proof houses as well by the end of the 18'th century. A good photo of whatever marks there are might help narrow it down.

 

[KABAR2]

This is not an American pistol S North did not use screws to attach front band hammer is a European design as is lock I would take the lock off and look for marks on the inside also the underside of barrel.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

As said above, it is not American-made and certainly not by North, who was one of the most prolific of American gunmakers. I, like others, believe it might be Belgian made, proof marks will tell, they are on the barrel's breech, and will likely be visible assembled or it's very possible that they may be on the bottom of the barrel. If the later, you will need to remove the barrel from the stock to see them.

 

[LeagueLes]

Thanks for that. The only reason I thought Simeon North was because of the likeness. Almost identical. The muzzle band is different, but I presumed a later version. Not sure if North did a .67 model either.

I will heed your advice and strip the gun.

Thanks so much.

 

[LeagueLes]

Thanks to you too. My response to Kabar above shows my next step.

 

[LeagueLes]

Thanks for the assist. I am a novice and just the overall likeness made me assume.

I will strip the pistol and search for marks

 

[LeagueLes]

Thanks for the help. I will strip it and post any marks I find.

Great to have the help of all you blokes.

 

[KABAR2]

Taking down this pistol is fairly simple to remove the lock there should be two screws on the other side of the stock remove the screws and the lock will come out of the mortise...
To remove the barrel remove screw from bottom of band and remove band, at the back of the barrel is the tang a long flat section narrower than the barrel remove the screw from that and the barrel should come right out....
Now a word of caution.... test the screws to see if they move if they do than proceed... if they donot then get some light machine oil/penetrating oil and soak the threads on the lock and on the trigger plate that corospond to the screw locations..... Hope this helps....

 

[LeagueLes]

Thanks again. Followed your advice and it came apart easily except for the trigger guard. A bit tight so I did not force it.

The only marks were on the timber under the screw plate and on the lock.

Theses are shown below along with the saw marks on the muzzle and the Simeon North pistol I saw that made me assume.

 

[KABAR2]

Well the inside of the lock tells us much this is not a conversion but built as a percussion pistol
there was never a removable flint lock pan on this plate... the marks on the mainspring and on the sideplate mortise are sub-assembly marks the "Key" mark is interesting....have you tried soaking the screw for the barrel with some oil? I have a feeling there may be a proof mark or two on the underside of the barrel, also can you give us a photo of the underside of the stock where the tube is for the ramrod?