Velocity affect accuracy ?

[kelljp]

Was reading an article about accuracy in a modern rifle and the ammo manufacturer was stating there ammo for accuracy had a slower velocity to improve accuracy. That being said I wondered had anyone tested this concept in black powder rifles. I would assume it would follow suit. Even though I have always tried to achieve the max velocity. Maybe that is why I am a ousy shot.

 

[tenngun]

Was reading an article about accuracy in a modern rifle and the ammo manufacturer was stating there ammo for accuracy had a slower velocity to improve accuracy. That being said I wondered had anyone tested this concept in black powder rifles. I would assume it would follow suit. Even though I have always tried to achieve the max velocity. Maybe that is why I am a ousy shot.

I note after a point faster seems to open up the group. My best shooting ever was a Green River .54x42x1
Loaded with .527 and .02 patch on seventy grains 3f GOex
Tack driver at fifty yards and under two inch’s at a hundred,
At 100 grains I was closer to four inches, and 140 added another inch
I have found my best shooting ever in the 1400-1500 fps
Now a caveat is my smoothies
If I’m shooting patched ball lower velocities are fine, but faster works better shooting bare ball.
In my TFC .62 I get great groups with PRB at 65 grains, but 110 on bare matches my patched.
However, being old and wimpy I generally shoot bare over 75 grains and it shoots with deer hunting accuracy

 

[morehops52]

In my own experience as well as much reading on the subject a maximum charge rarely gives the best accuracy.

 

[stubshaft]

Optimum accuracy is usually dependent on finding the velocity where the barrel harmonics allow the bullet to exit the muzzle at exactly the same point.

 

[andy52]

Optimum accuracy is usually dependent on finding the velocity where the barrel harmonics allow the bullet to exit the muzzle at exactly the same point.

Correct. The idea is to get the bullet to exit the barrel in the middle of the harmonic cycle. It takes time to work up a load, but you only have to do it once.

 

[dave951]

Optimum accuracy is usually dependent on finding the velocity where the barrel harmonics allow the bullet to exit the muzzle at exactly the same point.

^What he said 100%

While there are also other factors in play, this is gospel when it comes to looking for accuracy in a given arm. I've been reloading for nearly 50 years and shooting for over 60 and seen it time after time after time..........

 

[Ninering62]

Was reading an article about accuracy in a modern rifle and the ammo manufacturer was stating there ammo for accuracy had a slower velocity to improve accuracy. That being said I wondered had anyone tested this concept in black powder rifles. I would assume it would follow suit. Even though I have always tried to achieve the max velocity. Maybe that is why I am a ousy shot.

Optimal accuracy is achieved by pushing the projectile at a velocity that times the bullet exiting the muzzle at a specific point in the harmonic wave. Correct twist rate either the bullet you’re using plays a role in the accuracy you’ll get.
But taking all the technical aspects out of this equation, if the shooter can not manage the recoil, regardless of how accurate the gun & the load are, the Lack of accuracy will be the same.

 

[wiscoaster]

As muzzle velocity is a result of load, and load affects trajectory, and accuracy is a consequence of flatest trajectory, the objective is to find the load that produces the flatest trajectory. That should be that specific rifle's most accurate load. Whatever muzzle velocity that results from that load is its most accurate muzzle velocity.

That's a lot of words and a long way of saying, "find the load that produces the best group".

.... and whatever the muzzle velocity is, is what it is.

 

[andy52]

As muzzle velocity is a result of load, and load affects trajectory, and accuracy is a consequence of flatest trajectory, the objective is to find the load that produces the flatest trajectory. That should be that specific rifle's most accurate load. Whatever muzzle velocity that results from that load is its most accurate muzzle velocity.

What your essentially saying is the highest velocity would be the most accurate?

 

[wiscoaster]

What your essentially saying is the highest velocity would be the most accurate?

No. Sorry, I edited to add while you were quoting. Too many words produces misunderstanding.

The most accurate would theoretically be somewhere in the middle. A heavier load and resulting higher muzzle velocity would also produce a higher parabolic arched trajectory.

But it's different for every gun and why people do "load development".

 

[andy52]

No. Sorry, I edited to add while you were quoting. Too many words produces misunderstanding.

The most accurate would theoretically be somewhere in the middle. A heavier load and resulting higher muzzle velocity would also produce a higher parabolic arched trajectory.

But it's different for every gun and why people do "load development".

Correct, load development takes time and patience. I've done it a number of times and have found that most rifles are at their most accurate somewhere between middle and max loads.

 

[LME]

^What he said 100%

While there are also other factors in play, this is gospel when it comes to looking for accuracy in a given arm. I've been reloading for nearly 50 years and shooting for over 60 and seen it time after time after time..........

I use to compete in tournaments . The rifles were .22 cal. An the one thing that was a given was to keep the speed of the bullets below the speed of sound if you wanted any chance of winning!

 

[andy52]

I use to compete in tournaments . The rifles were .22 cal. An the one thing that was a given was to keep the speed of the bullets below the speed of sound if you wanted any chance of winning!

Absolutely, for .22 rf I shoot in the vintage class with an old model 52c but I'm not sure that holds true to center fire or Muzzleloaders.

 

[Ed C.]

But taking all the technical aspects out of this equation, if the shooter can not manage the recoil, regardless of how accurate the gun & the load are, the Lack of accuracy will be the same.

This brings up the question again. Is the bullet exiting the muzzle before or after the recoil? I would think before, otherwise, even with good recoil abilities we wouldn't be able to shoot the tight groups that are achieved today.

 

[andy52]

This brings up the question again. Is the bullet exiting the muzzle before or after the recoil? I would think before, otherwise, even with good recoil abilities we wouldn't be able to shoot the tight groups that are achieved today.

Yup.

 

[LME]

Absolutely, for .22 rf I shoot in the vintage class with an old model 52c but I'm not sure that holds true to center fire or Muzzleloaders.

I shot ,"Sporter Class" I used a 1710 Anshutz! At fifty yards a 1/4 " diameter circle is not an easy target to hit 25 times in a row with the best optics money could buy, which would mean you shot a perfect score. I only did it once but to do it in Sporter Class is rarely heard of happening. I can't even recall how any years I played the game before I shot the elusive 250 score? I was able to stay in the high to middle 140ies but 250 was my goal
Those old 52 Winchesters were sweet rifles and in their day were the cream of the crop! You are fortunate to have one. People don't turn them loose very often?

 

[andy52]

I shot ,"Sporter Class" I used a 1710 Anshutz! At fifty yards a 1/4 " diameter circle is not an easy target to hit 25 times in a row with the best optics money could buy, which would mean you shot a perfect score. I only did it once but to do it in Sporter Class is rarely heard of happening. I can't even recall how any years I played the game before I shot the elusive 250 score? I was able to stay in the high to middle 140ies but 250 was my goal
Those old 52 Winchesters were sweet rifles and in their day were the cream of the crop! You are fortunate to have one. People don't turn them loose very often?

Yes sir, back in the day the 52s were called the king of .22s. Winchester made them at a loss because of their reputation for accuracy. The bad thing about 22LRs you have to buy a boatload ammo to find what work best.
here are a couple of photos of my best with the ammo shown at the top, it is a 10 round group at 50 yds.

 

[LME]

Yes sir, back in the day the 52s were called the king of .22s. Winchester made them at a loss because of their reputation for accuracy. The bad thing about 22LRs you have to buy a boatload ammo to find what work best.
here are a couple of photos of my best with the ammo shown at the top, it is a 10 round group at 50 yds.View attachment 369658View attachment 369660

 

[LME]

Yes sir, back in the day the 52s were called the king of .22s. Winchester made them at a loss because of their reputation for accuracy. The bad thing about 22LRs you have to buy a boatload ammo to find what work best.
here are a couple of photos of my best with the ammo shown at the top, it is a 10 round group at 50 yds.View attachment 369658View attachment 369660

Not bad at all ! If you would put a dot on a blank sheet of paper and adjust your scope left or right off target then shoot a group aiming at the dot you might be surprised at the results. Shooting a small target exactly where you are aiming will destroys your aiming point. That will cause your group to open up a bit! I have won a few dollars with this trick! Most people don't think about this?

 

[maillemaker]

You will almost never find maximum accuracy at maximum velocity.

For any given rifling twist rate and bullet weight there will be a specific powder charge (or charges) that will move the bullet at a velocity that produces the best accuracy for that bullet and barrel. This almost never happens at the maximum allowable charge.