help to select accessories to 1st rifle

[marco]

Hi you all!

Well, thats my first post after introduce myself and its good to be here!

I got some previous experience shooting modern guns and also small calibers smooth bore muzzleloading rifles up to .410, but nothing serious, just some buckshot, paperwads.. k-boom and a smiley face. Its not rocket science.

But some days ago i got what seems to be a ".50 traditions deer hunter kit" and this thing looks like a entirely new beast to me.

I mean, its big, heavy, has a rifled bore (never fired one like these), and since i got the bare gun, it seems that i would have to acquire a multitude of cleaning and loading accessories prior to shoot it.

Well.. my experience with modern guns told me to avoid start buying the things you think you need and to ask to more experienced shooters what does really work or not.

So, here i am, with a bare rifle, wich i intend to use on the shooting range only.

What do i need to buy to shoot, clean and maintain it properly?

I think my first aquisition would be a good reading. Do you reccomend any basic manual or online pdf?

After some study, i think i can buy my loading equipment.

My basic list to shoot in the range include:

1) Powder: will be Traditional blackpowder ( thats the only kind available around here. No options.)

2) Caps: #11 ( thats the only kind available around here. No options.)

3) CLEANING
I know that i would need cleaning jags, brushes and mops.
And a nipple tool and cleaning pick too.
But i dont know what would be a good brand to pick, and if i should pick a dedicated set with its own range rod or just separated interchangeable brushes to use with my own gun rod.
Also know very little about cleaning solvents and oils to use with traditional blackpowder.

4) LOADING
I think i would need a projectile starter, a capper and decapper, a powder measure, a patch worm and a projectile itself.
But i know nothing about how to properly choose it all.
Would you reccomend any brand or model?

Well.. thats it.
I got a gun an the desire to shoot it the right way, so, i came here to learn prior to make some bad decisions.

Thanks you all!

 

[necchi]

A good place to start is by reading this pdf handbook for Thompon Center firearms,, yours is Traditions but the basics are the same; http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/Shooting_TC_Guns.pdf

 

[Zonie]

Hi you all!

...

What do i need to buy to shoot, clean and maintain it properly?

...

My basic list to shoot in the range include:

1) Powder: will be Traditional blackpowder ( thats the only kind available around here. No options.)
You can't do any better than that.
Real black powder ignites faster than the synthetic powders.
It's only flaw is it does leave quite a bit of fouling in the bore.
If this fouling makes loading the next shot difficult, use a damp cleaning patch on the jag to remove it.
To do this, run the damp (with water) patch down the bore to the breech. Let it sit for 10-15 seconds to allow the fouling to soften and then remove it in one smooth pull. Do not run the patch up and down the bore as doing this will knock fouling down into the breech where it can cause ignition problems.

2) Caps: #11 ( thats the only kind available around here. No options.)

3) CLEANING
I know that i would need cleaning jags, brushes and mops.

Actually, just a brass cleaning jag made for a .50 caliber barrel and some cleaning patches along with some water is all you need.

And a nipple tool and cleaning pick too.

You won't have much use for the cleaning pick.
You will need a nipple wrench that fits the nipple.

But i dont know what would be a good brand to pick, and if i should pick a dedicated set with its own range rod or just separated interchangeable brushes to use with my own gun rod.


Most agree that "Ted Cash" products are among the best but for the most part, any brand will do.
Avoid buying jags and brushes with brass threads.
If that's all you can get it's worthwhile to remove the brass threads, drill and thread a hole for a matching American size thread and install a matching steel set screw. I like the #10-32 size because of its extra strength over the #8-32 size.
Having a good one piece range rod which is threaded to match your cleaning jag is a good idea.
Your existing cleaning rod may work but the multi-piece rods often fail at the screwed joints where the pieces fit together.

Also know very little about cleaning solvents and oils to use with traditional blackpowder.
Plain water and a dish washing soap are all you need to clean your rifle.
Choose a good anti-rust oil to protect the bore.

4) LOADING
I think i would need a projectile starter, a capper and decapper, a powder measure, a patch worm and a projectile itself.
But i know nothing about how to properly choose it all.
Would you reccomend any brand or model?
You won't need a "decapper". Your fingers or a pair of needle nose pliers will work find.
The ball starter is often called a "short starter". It consists of a round wooden ball with two short wooden (or brass) dowels sticking out of it. You can make your own if you can find a 50mm wooden ball and a piece of 10mm dowel.
The patched ball is started into the muzzle using just the outside of the ball.
A short 3mm dowel then pushes the patched ball down the bore just a bit followed by a 75-80mm dowel to get the ball down to a place where the ramrod can take over.

Your rifle will shoot a .490" diameter lead ball patched with a thin, close weave cotton patch.
Patches around .015-.018" (.38-.46mm) thick will work best.

Lubricate the patch lightly with a vegetable oil before loading. You will see hundreds of different patch lube's on the forum so if you want to, make some of them and try them.

Your powder loads will range from 40 grains to 100 grains. This is usually measured by volume.
I recommend buying an adjustable powder measure because it gives you the opportunity of changing the amount of powder you load.
Each gun will like one or two powder loads better than larger or smaller powder loads to give its best accuracy. The fun is finding out which load works best.
Well.. thats it.
I got a gun an the desire to shoot it the right way, so, i came here to learn prior to make some bad decisions.

Thanks you all!

 

[Spikebuck]

Marco, again...welcome to the forum.

As far as reading, when I first started and had no one I knew to help me, I found a lot of very valuable information in Sam Fadala's Black Powder Handbook. I see the new version includes information on more than just traditional.
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Blackpowder-Handbook-Sam-Fadala/dp/0896893901

Also, you can look up a bunch of videos on Youtube and see what you think would work best for you.

Do you plan to order things internationally or just buy what you need locally?

 

[Grenadier1758]

I believe that a range rod of stainless steel or brass is one of the best accessories to have. The metal rods are sturdy enough for all loading needs and cleaning needs. Get the cleaning jag, ball puller and perhaps a mop to clean the gun.

The cleaning solvents to get are among the simplest of selections. Water dissolves black powder fouling. A few added drops of dish washing detergent will clean up the oils that you may use in the patch lubricants. Simple oils such as light machine oils such as 3 in 1 work good as rust inhibiting lubricants. A wipe with rubbing alcohol will remove the oils from the bore before you shoot your rifle.

I like the Ted Cash oval capper for putting caps on the nipple.

You need a powder measure that is adjustable in the 50 grain to 120 grain volume range. I like the types with the cut off funnel.

These few items should keep you shooting at the range and get you cleaned up and stored afterwards.

You will need some files and sandpaper and sanding blocks to assemble your rifle.

Have fun while you ask more questions.

 

[azmntman]

Get a C02 ball puller (pusher) or at least a ball puller. If pulling rather than blowing with C02 a stuck ball can pull loose from your rod MAKE SURE ITS PINNED. If you like this addiction you will eventually (for me once or twice every outing)dry ball (forget the powder). If you find you have done so, use the C02 thingy or take nipple out and pour some powder (4-5 grains) in the hole, replace the nipple and shoot it out. Make sure it came out. Make sure the ball is FULLY seated on the powder too or you can damage the barrel or worse. :thumbsup:

 

[nwtradegun]

I am at a loss. the ".50 traditions deer hunter is a clone of a cva bobcat. it only weights 6 lb. are you sure you have that model. I would also go with a musket cap nipple and musket caps for 100 per cent ignition.

 

[Zonie]

Marco, who is in Brazil said in his original post,

"2) Caps: #11 ( thats the only kind available around here. No options."

I am also not a great fan of Musket caps for regular rifles.

More than a few rifles have hammers which have recesses in their nose to shield the cap fragments have too small of a recess to allow for the Musket caps larger diameter.

Musket caps can also be difficult to find in local gun stores, even in the USA.

 

[marco]

Hi, sorry about the absence.

I was retired from my shooting activities due health issues but I'm returning now.

There are 2 pictures of my rifle in annex.

Now, a long time after my original post,
I would like to check the accessories that I should buy:

1..A stainless steel range rod (I should order a custom one locally, so I think I must acquire the rod tips first, to match the tip screws)

2. cleaning jag

3. ball puller

4. mop to clean the gun.

5. Oval capper

6. Powder measure

7. Ball starter??

It's all for a basic kit?

Thanks

Cheers from Brazil!



Cheers from Brasil

Attached Files:

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

You seem to be on your way. I would recommend the short starter or ball starter. For me, it simplifies the loading process. I also have a small wooden mallet to seat the ball into the barrel. That’s just the way I’ve done it for many years. Others don’t use those items.

And don’t forget patching material and a lube.

 

[yonderin]

Using a steel range rod, you may need to find a method or device to ensure the rod can't rub the muzzle.

I also use a bore brush occasionally, when reversing it, ensure you give it a good twist to "unlock" the bristles or you could be very sorry. Not absolutely neccessary and I'm sure a lot of shooters here will report never using one.
If you do get one trapped, a round curtain rod shoved down over the bristles, trapping it and allowing easy removal.

If you can, I recommend you cast your own ball. Not particularly hard to learn and you'll not be at the mercy of your local store.

Welcome to the dark side.
Make good smoke.

 

[bang]

Seems you have powder and primer selected. #11 standard with rifles. Several cappers out there. Inline cappers work fine or the larger 100 primer capper.
I suggest the Traditions universal or Thompson Center 51017482 nipple wrench
Before selecting projectile, ball n patch I recommend measuring the bore. Typically select bore -0.010. Then add 0.015 - 0.020 patch. Fit should be a single moderate palm strike to starter providing enough compression pressure to leave fabric impression on ball of pure soft lead with smooth easy ram. My preference is 0.015 minimum thickness. Thicker best in deep groove barrels for gas seal. My 50cals take .490 ball n 0.020 patch. 45cal, .440 n 0.020 Once down a 40inlb or a drop of the ramrod is sufficient seating pressure.
Get a brass range rod. They are best if you must pull a projectile. If you dry ball, no powder, pull nipple and fill with powder and rotate nipple hole up and tap to feed powder and repeat till powder won't feed. Usually about 10gns. Replace nipple and fire. If you repeat make sure to seat projectile then fire. Typically one try will get the projectile out.
Get jag per caliber. I would get several different styles. One with ball cup for ramming ball. One with centering cup for bullet style projectile and one flat for general use.
Get a patch grabber or keep a brush for retrieving a patch.
Puller jag per caliber. I like a larger then trim to a bit closer fit. If charged wet powder first.
Mop not that necessary using cleaning patches.
Nipple pick can be a simple piece of hard wire or welding tip cleaner. There are nipple wrenches that have pick but I am not a fan of the wrench quality.
Get like a 20-120 adjustable powder measure. Powder horns are nice but the Traditions brass tube flask is very nice. Fill the measure from flask . Don't put charge in barrel from flask. It is possible to get hot ember from shooting, rare, but I would rather powder flare from measure and not an exploding flask. Very rare but better safe than sorry.
Soapy water will clean just fine. I wet swab n dry swab then sopping wet swab before I head home. Makes the cleaning at home much easier. I use a small bottle with a hose on the nipple with a tight patch to draw and push solution through out the barrel, flash channel and nipple. Does a really good job. Then remove nipple and use pipe cleaner on channel. Liberal oil patch after dry. Store muzzel down or put cloth over nipple to absorb any oil. Dry swab prior to next shoot.
I suggest starting at 60gns fff with patched round ball (PRB). Work up till best accuracy provided. Not sure your twist but 70gns works good in my 50cal 1:48 28 inch and 1:66 33.5 inch. Just have to experiment. Have to work up load for each size and weight projectile.
Don't expect a flat trajectory compared to moderns. Once the range gets out beyond around 150-185 yards it's like sighting a mortar round. Front packers pressures are not anywhere like breach loaders. Once you reach the peak accuracy charge, more is not going to get you much. Shot placement is paramount.

 

[yonderin]

Not sure it's a real necessity, you might want a breech scraper as well. I like to use mine occasionally but it may not be of any real value. When I do use it I never find any evidence of fouling on it after. If nothing else it's a feel good thing.
I use a bore mop myself but a good fitting patch on the jag would work just as well. Maybe better as when I'm pumping the barrel to clean, water works it's way around and above the mop so I end up with a bit of a mess to deal with.

Now is the time to think of getting a couple of spare nipples, not later when you think you might be having an issue with it.

Dutch Shultz (Dr5x on here) has a very interesting accuracy system available. Some people swear by it, some don't. I think it's worth the price, whether or not you embrace all of his ideas. In the end, what gives you satisfactory results is what matters.

 

[renegadehunter]

Another thing I would mention. After cleaning the rifle and putting some kind of rust preventing oil in the bore it is a good idea to store the rifle muzzle down to keep the oil from getting into the flame channel. Do make sure to remove the oil like Grenadier said before shooting again with denatured alcohol or 91% or better alcohol.

 

[yonderin]

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that, like so many of us, you don't have a good supplier close at hand and will be mail-ordering most of your stuff?

If so, a couple of suppliers I can recommend are Track of The Wolf and The Gun Works Muzzleloading Emporium.

If you send me your address, I can go through my bits and bobs to see what I can spare for you.

Who can confirm whether his rifle has a flat faced or patent breech? A quick search didn't enlighten me.