Hello, I am new to black powder shooting and am considering 2 rifles and would welcome opinions on which way to go. I cannot afford a custom gun right now so I am considering either a Pedersoli Pennsylvania rifle .45 or .50 cal percussion, or a Lyman .50 cal Great Plains rifle. I will be doing strictly target shooting with this gun, no hunting, and strictly patch and ball. I know the Lyman has a 1:60 twist and the Pedersoli a 1:47 twist. The barrels are 32 and 42 inches I believe. Appreciate any help as to which would be the most accurate at mostly 50 and 100 yards. Thanks guys.
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Hmmm. Both made in Italy, both have good reputations (some say Pedersoli has fluxuations in quality within product lines). Two quite different styles. I'd say either would make a good target shooter, probably the accuracy will be very good in both cases.
At 100 yards the .50 may be less effected by wind. I didn't think the Pedersoli PA was available in .50 except in the short barreled "Scout" model (with a faster twist)?
Kind of boils down to which style appeals to you. If possible, try them both for fit. That would make a big difference for me.
IMHO the Lyman has slightly better sights (adjustments and design), but the longer barrel of the Pedersoli may be easier for you to use depending on your vision.
Hmmm. Both made in Italy, both have good reputations (some say Pedersoli has fluxuations in quality within product lines). Two quite different styles. I'd say either would make a good target shooter, probably the accuracy will be very good in both cases.
At 100 yards the .50 may be less effected by wind. I didn't think the Pedersoli PA was available in .50 except in the short barreled "Scout" model (with a faster twist)?
Kind of boils down to which style appeals to you. If possible, try them both for fit. That would make a big difference for me.
IMHO the Lyman has slightly better sights (adjustments and design), but the longer barrel of the Pedersoli may be easier for you to use depending on your vision.
Tahquamenon
45 Cal.
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Either would serve nicely.
Also take a look at the Pedersoli/Frontier-Cabela's/Blue Ridge. Really a decent long rifle for the money and shoots and handles excellent.
The best thing would be if you could at least shoulder them so to get a best idea as to what feels good to you.
I doubt you would see much of a difference in 100 yard accuracy with either.
:imo:
Also take a look at the Pedersoli/Frontier-Cabela's/Blue Ridge. Really a decent long rifle for the money and shoots and handles excellent.
The best thing would be if you could at least shoulder them so to get a best idea as to what feels good to you.
I doubt you would see much of a difference in 100 yard accuracy with either.
:imo:
If your going to do only target shooting then I would go with the longer barrel. They are both excellent rifles made by good companys. For target shooting, I just like a longer barrel.
Also look into the weight of the rifles. If your going to do any off hand shooting the weight of the rifle can play an important factor in the over all balance and accuracy.
The best thing would be to get your hands on each of them and hold and shoulder them and see which one fits you the best and which one just makes you smile more when you hold it... Then buy both of them!!
::
Also look into the weight of the rifles. If your going to do any off hand shooting the weight of the rifle can play an important factor in the over all balance and accuracy.
The best thing would be to get your hands on each of them and hold and shoulder them and see which one fits you the best and which one just makes you smile more when you hold it... Then buy both of them!!
::
Pittsburghunter
50 Cal.
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I agree with Cayugad the feel of the rifle at this point is more important they will both shoot good. (Or should shoot good).
Get a hold of both some how and see which you like best.
Get a hold of both some how and see which you like best.
I don't have the Pedersoli Kentucky, but looking at the data, I would mention the Pedersoli .50 caliber has .005 deep grooves with a 1:48 twist while the GPR's grooves are .010 deep with a 1:60 twist.
Everything I've seen and learned in over 30 years of shooting muzzleloaders says the deeper grooves and the slower twist are best for patched roundball shooting.
I will say the GPR (which I own) shoots patched roundballs exceptionally accurately.
My only complaints with the GPR is it is heavy and the front sight is much too wide for precision shooting (at least for me).
Beyond that, it is IMO an incredible buy. It also costs lots less than the Pedersoli if you know where to look for it.
Everything I've seen and learned in over 30 years of shooting muzzleloaders says the deeper grooves and the slower twist are best for patched roundball shooting.
I will say the GPR (which I own) shoots patched roundballs exceptionally accurately.
My only complaints with the GPR is it is heavy and the front sight is much too wide for precision shooting (at least for me).
Beyond that, it is IMO an incredible buy. It also costs lots less than the Pedersoli if you know where to look for it.
Guest
Stumpkiller,
Is the lyman great plains rifle made in Italy, and not the U.S.????? Please say it aint so.....I thought the Lymans were made by dixon Gunworks or some such.
If they are Italian, that leaves us what, Thompson and custom for USA M.L. rifles?
>>>------>Apache<------<<<
Is the lyman great plains rifle made in Italy, and not the U.S.????? Please say it aint so.....I thought the Lymans were made by dixon Gunworks or some such.
If they are Italian, that leaves us what, Thompson and custom for USA M.L. rifles?
>>>------>Apache<------<<<
jimbo15563
40 Cal.
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I subscribe to the Long Range Muzzle Loader Mailing List. In the past week, Pedersoli has taken a lot of heat from these guys about the quality of their high-end target rifles. Unfortunately, I deleted these messages. If any more show up, I'll post a few quotes here. On the other hand, I've heard a lot of good things about the Lymans.
Before you make up your mind, you might want to look at Thompson Center Renegades and Hawkens. You'll spend a few hundred more in exchange for a high-quality American made product with a lifetime warranty.
The only downside to the Thompsons are that they are a 1:48 twist - a comromise that allows them to shoot both PRB and Conicals well. This twist might be a tad too fast for a dedicated PRB target shooter. Although, I must say that I get excellent round ball groups with my Renegade flinter.
Jimbo
Before you make up your mind, you might want to look at Thompson Center Renegades and Hawkens. You'll spend a few hundred more in exchange for a high-quality American made product with a lifetime warranty.
The only downside to the Thompsons are that they are a 1:48 twist - a comromise that allows them to shoot both PRB and Conicals well. This twist might be a tad too fast for a dedicated PRB target shooter. Although, I must say that I get excellent round ball groups with my Renegade flinter.
Jimbo
With that in mind. I always will wonder if there is a connection somehow between Lyman and T/C. If you ever look at their locks, I feel the same place made them. Yes, I know one is held together with metric screws while the other is American Standard, but other than the fake engraving on the T/C lock plate, they look alike. At least they looked that way when I bought my Lyman GPR in 1980 and compared it to my T/C that I also bought in 1980.
Guest
IMHO the Lyman GPR is the best deal today in traditional ML rifles. Once you find you like MLing (I'm sure you will)and might consider buckskinning, it would fit right in. They look right, shoot good and are reasonably priced.
Yep. 'Fraid so. They've always been made by Interarms as far as I know. Don't despair. Italy is to firearms manufacture what China is to gunpowder. I believe Beretta is one of the oldest continually operated private manufacturing firms of any kind in the world; since 1510 or some such. be thankful Italy embraced the percussion revolvers. Where would we turn without the Italian clones?
Hey, It's a world economy. Better get used to it. T/C is a hair's width from dropping it's few sidelock models and then it's custom made or customs house.
Hey, It's a world economy. Better get used to it. T/C is a hair's width from dropping it's few sidelock models and then it's custom made or customs house.
IMHO, I don't know if you will find a better value than a Lyman. I can't speak to the GPR but I have a Trade Rifle and am well satisfied. Walnut stock with some figure, good metal finish,good wood to metal fit, and accurate. It is a 1 in 48 twist but shoots PRB accurately. Having said that, I still wish I could find something comparable and American made but, with the way things are going with the various free trade agreements, before long we won't find much of anything "Made in USA".
mike
mike
If I could respectfully add another option, just to add to your confusion :crackup:. Look up www.austinhalleck.com, then look at their Mt. Rifles, if they peak your interest then e-mail Tom Lodge @ www.sunrisearchery.com(tell him Larry turned you on to him), tell him what options you want and he can give you a price quote.
He lives in Hawiai and is a dealer for them. The guns are built in Utah and your gun won't be started until they recieve your order. I delt with Tom last year on this very same gun and could not have been more pleased with the service of Tom or the quality and price from A&H.
Larry
He lives in Hawiai and is a dealer for them. The guns are built in Utah and your gun won't be started until they recieve your order. I delt with Tom last year on this very same gun and could not have been more pleased with the service of Tom or the quality and price from A&H.
Larry
The Trade Rifle is a Model Lyman sells.
I second the A&H!! I have both a GPR and Austin and the Austin is hands down a better rifle! Lock alone blows Lyman away. Better wood and looks.
But it was pickier about it's loads.
I paid 623 for it with a Hand select stock and it is purrrty!!
The only fault is I wish they had it in a fullstock.
I gave my GPR to my son and I'll keep the Austin and I sold my old CVA (shoulda kept that).
All my others are flint - and it is true once you try flint you will never go back!
:m2c:
But it was pickier about it's loads.
I paid 623 for it with a Hand select stock and it is purrrty!!
The only fault is I wish they had it in a fullstock.
I gave my GPR to my son and I'll keep the Austin and I sold my old CVA (shoulda kept that).
All my others are flint - and it is true once you try flint you will never go back!
:m2c:
Guest
well....Kind of dashed me on the rocks a bit, Perhaps Ill go a few hundred more and do a custom on the next Rifle. Definately hopelessly hooked. Like the Austin & halleck WOW!!! spanish barrel and all. What next, a Norinco Hawken?
Ive had an Italian sharps, was well made Rifle, Im sure the Lyman is Worthy as well.....BUt I want an american made smokepole, Better hang on to my T/C hawken, maybe get another one new before they sub out to china as well.
Thanks for the info, saved me from making a decision that I would have had regrets on.
>>>----->Apache<-----<<<
Ive had an Italian sharps, was well made Rifle, Im sure the Lyman is Worthy as well.....BUt I want an american made smokepole, Better hang on to my T/C hawken, maybe get another one new before they sub out to china as well.
Thanks for the info, saved me from making a decision that I would have had regrets on.
>>>----->Apache<-----<<<
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