Help with Hawken Identification.

[TheDividQ]

Greetings all, recently I acquired a .54 Hawken from a local gun club I'm a member of. I'm loving the piece and she shoots beautifully, but im having difficulty properly identifying who may have built the rifle as well as where and when. It is not an Italian reproduction I'd don't believe, but i dont believe its an original either. I know copies of the originals have been made by named craftsmen who did very good jobs making copies as close to the original as possible. However there are no markings on the rifle at all apart from "S. Hawken St. Louis" being stamped on the top of the barrel, and this is done in uneven, individual character stamps which is not correct to the originals from what I know. If anyone has any ideas, clues, pointers that would help me identify this rifle id be very greatful. I have included some pictures and can take/upload more if need be.

 

[Phil Coffins]

You do appear to have a well built modern rifle. Many people have built Hawken rifles for decades, talking to the fellow that sold it to you would be a first step. Many people don’t sign their work so tracking it down isn’t as important as having a finely built gun. If there aren’t markings under the barrel I wouldn’t expect to find out

 

[TheDividQ]

You do appear to have a well built modern rifle. Many people have built Hawken rifles for decades, talking to the fellow that sold it to you would be a first step. Many people don’t sign their work so tracking it down isn’t as important as having a finely built gun. If there aren’t markings under the barrel I wouldn’t expect to find out

The gun club I bought it from buys and sells all sorts of firearms for its members and is set up as a kind of used gun store inside a collectibles and antiques store. I didn't buy it directly from a member but from the club itself. I may be able to ask who sold the rifle to the club and get in contact with the pervious owner though.

 

[BoomStick]

It could be one from a few different kits or shops in the 70s to 90s. Looks to have a hooked breech, so there may be a barrel maker on the underside. My hunch would be a Sharon gun, from the entry pipe and pewter nose cap.

 

[BoomStick]

For some reference on Sharon rifles:
https://grrw.org/sharon-rifle-barrel-co/

 

[TheDividQ]

It could be one from a few different kits or shops in the 70s to 90s. Looks to have a hooked breech, so there may be a barrel maker on the underside. My hunch would be a Sharon gun, from the entry pipe and pewter nose cap.

It is indeed a hooked breech but there are no markings on the underside of the barrel hidden by the stock (I'll post pictures of that area after I'm home from work). From my research I am guessing a 70s to 90s time frame as well. Was Sharon a builder? I'm not familiar with the name.

 

[BoomStick]

It is indeed a hooked breech but there are no markings on the underside of the barrel hidden by the stock (I'll post pictures of that area after I'm home from work). From my research I am guessing a 70s to 90s time frame as well. Was Sharon a builder? I'm not familiar with the name.

I hope the link above gives some background on the company and it's guns. Some discussion of the Sharon hawken there may give some clues of things to look for on yours.

 

[TheDividQ]

For some reference on Sharon rifles:
https://grrw.org/sharon-rifle-barrel-co/

Wow! What a cool read! Thanks for that link. It does seem i might have one of those kits. Going to look at the breech plug snail, lower entry pipe, and heel/toe difference on the butt stock when I get home. Everything in that article seems to match what I have but I'll double check to be sure and update with pictures. Much appreciated!

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have to admit that the Hawken rifle I built has no identification. That rifle is not mine. Mine is in the gun cabinet.

I do know of a builder of the 1970's that built rifles for the Hawken Shop while he was living in Arizona. Those he sent back to St. Louis for final engraving and delivery, so, I don't think that is one of his. Would have had a proper S. Hawken stamp. For the most part he used Large barrels and they would have been stamped on the underside.

A Sharon barrel would have been marked with a Sharon Stamp.

@TheDividQ, the rifle appears to have a poured pewter nose cap. Are there any markings on the inside of the lock plate? Is the barrel tapered or straight?

I do believe that you have a well-built rifle who's tracking to the maker is lost.

 

[TheDividQ]

Alright. So I have examined the rifle and it does appear to have the extended toe on the butt plate as well as the single piece lower entry pipe mentioned in the article which @BoomStick linked.

@Grenadier1758 I have yet to examine the inside of the lock plate but that will be my next step. The barrel is straight, measuring exactly 1" across the exterior on both ends.

The ramrod thimbles are soldered on as well if this info helps. (One did fall off and I'll need to reattach it.)

Included are more pictures showing some more details.

 

[TheDividQ]

More pictures showing the absence of any markings on the enterior of the stock and the underside of the barrel.

 

[William Sublette]

It's got 8 square bottom grooves.


What rifles used that?

 

[BoomStick]

Looks a lot like my Sharon hawken. The entry pipe is one distinguishing feature. The barrel marking on mine is both faint and half under one of the barrel tennons. My lock is unmarked. May not be able to say for certain, but a nice gun regardless of maker.

 

[BoomStick]

It's got 8 square bottom grooves.


What rifles used that?



View attachment 359332

Sharon barrels had 8 lands and grooves, but of course could be others as well.

 

[William Sublette]

This is the muzzle off a Sharon trade rifle.

 

[TheDividQ]

To everyone who has posted and offered suggestions in this thread thus far thank you. It may be a Sharon kit and so far that's what it seems the evidence points to but the absence of any Sharon markings is curious to me. I did check under the barrel tennons as @BoomStick mentioned but saw no markings. There is some light surface rust which I will clean off and hopefully get a better look after that. When I remove and examine the interior of the lock plate is there anything specific to look for? Would the spring and seer for a Sharon lock be distinctive enough to help identify it? Also, it appears that the origional finish of the barrel, lock, and other metal furniture pieces was done in some sort of browning which is wearing off in a many places. Personally I'm not such a fan of this finish compared to the raw steel or blued steel look. Would it be a bad idea to attempt to remove the browning finish and refinish the rifle? My though is that if a marking is there it may be easier to see without the browning finish present.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Rub white chalk over where there are scratches. Wipe lightly with a dry cloth. This will bring out any markings.

 

[Phil Coffins]

If you decide to refinish the metal originals had color case hardened locks, breech and tang as well as some other parts. Barrels were blued and the finish was a polished mat texture. Here’s a photo of an original in pretty good condition.
IMG_0758 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

 

[TheDividQ]

If you decide to refinish the metal originals had color case hardened locks, breech and tang as well as some other parts. Barrels were blued and the finish was a polished mat texture. Here’s a photo of an original in pretty good condition.
IMG_0758 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

That's pretty much spot on the look I'd be aiming for.

 

[TheDividQ]

Rub white chalk over where there are scratches. Wipe lightly with a dry cloth. This will bring out any markings.

I'll have to give that a shot.