Help with new 1851

[BPNOOB]

Hello there! You can call me Erk or bpnoob. Before we dive into all the information I seek, allow me to tell you how I got here. I’ve fired many weapons throughout my youth, mostly WW2 era, but ever since I went plinking with my pal’s BP pistols, I’ve really wanted one of my own, preferably a colt and although I never followed through on that desire it lodged itself in my brain for 20ish years, UNTIL... my missus and I are Vintage dealers, and while exploring the scene in our new town (moved from PNW to Palm Springs CA) I came across a case with several models of Italian BP pistols within it. After looking them over, I decided on the sweet .36 1851, but first I went home to wisely(!?!) do some research - much of it on this forum and on YouTube. I learned much useful info, but firstly that based on its apparent ‘new’ condition, I would be getting either a post 2000 made pietta or uberti piece; and parts and accessories are easily obtained for either model, provided they were made post 2000. So after 3 weeks of ‘research’, I went back to the stall and got the .36 1851. It was as new condition except for 3 slightly stripped screw heads on the frame. I got home with my new prize and began looking for the markings that identified it as uberti or pietta. I won’t bore you with the details of days of confusing and often contradictory research, but now I know that I have a ASP/Euroarms 1851 distributed by Lyman made in 1977(!). So thats my problem: how do I get parts for it? Where do I find them? But first how do I determine WHICH parts it needs? I can’t assume any available parts and accessories will work, certainly not simply since I have an older somewhat obscure model made by a company that no longer exists. I don’t even know what size nipple wrench I need or how to find out. I’m so confused! Am I overthinking? Help me before I have an aneurysm. And no, the shop will not let me return/exchange it but I would rather figure this out and keep it, it is a beaut. Sorry for the long initial post, I’m a wordy guy

 

[fistmil]

My first bet would be Dixie Gun Works. They have quite an inventory of Percussion revolver parts. It's been a while sense I ordered anything from them, but they sold complete screw sets for revolvers and internal parts as well.

 

[BPNOOB]

My first bet would be Dixie Gun Works. They have quite an inventory of Percussion revolver parts. It's been a while sense I ordered anything from them, but they sold complete screw sets for revolvers and internal parts as well.

Hello fistmil! I posted my concerns on a couple of FB black powder groups, and I’ve heard the same thing from the guys on there, that the gals that work at Dixie Gun Works know their stuff. But most those guys also said the same thing, basically ‘quit worrying and go shoot it’ which is exactly what I’m going to do! The piece seems to be in very good shape, so unless I’m pumping balls thru it everyday I don’t need to worry about repairs anytime soon. There are the 3 frozen screws on the frame, but I don’t need to completely disassemble it for cleaning after occasional plinking. Thanks for the response, I now must find some $!§&#@ #10 caps

 

[Duk]

Make your own there are several kits available

 

[CaptainVane]

VTIgunparts.com
They have an explosion diagram for the 51. And Mark is very helpful if you need to call.
Yours is not Uberti but maybe parts swappable. Ask Mark.

 

[Tyler L]

Welcome @BPNOOB! I like your Aces High Eddie avatar

I know you're looking for Rem #10 caps, but these might be your only option besides making your own:
https://www.powdervalley.com/product/rws-1075-plus-percussion-caps/
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/88987

 

[springfield art]

Hello fistmil! I posted my concerns on a couple of FB black powder groups, and I’ve heard the same thing from the guys on there, that the gals that work at Dixie Gun Works know their stuff. But most those guys also said the same thing, basically ‘quit worrying and go shoot it’ which is exactly what I’m going to do! The piece seems to be in very good shape, so unless I’m pumping balls thru it everyday I don’t need to worry about repairs anytime soon. There are the 3 frozen screws on the frame, but I don’t need to completely disassemble it for cleaning after occasional plinking. Thanks for the response, I now must find some $!§&#@ #10 caps

Some goofball small time dealer at a county-level show this past week-end had a tin of CCI caps at $30!! There's definitely something fishy going on...I claim most guys and many if not all distributors & dealers are hoarding this product; some may say I'm nuts, (up for discussion!) but the factory says they're pouring out a million a day, so where are they?

 

[BPNOOB]

Some goofball small time dealer at a county-level show this past week-end had a tin of CCI caps at $30!! There's definitely something fishy going on...I claim most guys and many if not all distributors & dealers are hoarding this product; some may say I'm nuts, (up for discussion!) but the factory says they're pouring out a million a day, so where are they?

All I can find are cci #11, I know where there’s an unlimited supply of those but I hear they could cause chain fire. I doubt there is anything scarier for a noob than a chain fire!

 

[BPNOOB]

Make your own there are several kits available

Kits to make #10 caps?

 

[Ed C.]

A few suggestions meant to be helpful. If it shoots good no need to fix something that works. You should disassemble it after shooting and especially since it is a new "used" gun for a good cleaning. If you pack it with grease (Mobil 1) you can skip several breakdown cleanings between shooting sessions.. # 10 caps may be hard to get. You can make #11's work but I'd suggest replacing the nipples with slix springs nipples. Ted cash nipple wrench is a very sturdy tool for removing the nipples. As mentioned VTI is a good parts outlet. Also Taylors for Pietta and Uberti. I don't know what would be interchangeable with your gun.

 

[BPNOOB]

A few suggestions meant to be helpful. If it shoots good no need to fix something that works. You should disassemble it after shooting and especially since it is a new "used" gun for a good cleaning. If you pack it with grease (Mobil 1) you can skip several breakdown cleanings between shooting sessions.. # 10 caps may be hard to get. You can make #11's work but I'd suggest replacing the nipples with slix springs nipples. Ted cash nipple wrench is a very sturdy tool for removing the nipples. As mentioned VTI is a good parts outlet. Also Taylors for Pietta and Uberti. I don't know what would be interchangeable with your gun.

Unfortunately, the three frozen screws prevent me from completely disassembling it. They all have stripped heads too, so somebody tried and failed to remove them and I don’t want to compound the damage. I’ve heard some advice to remove them when the time comes, but I’m going to shoot it a bit first. I can take off the barrel and cylinder so I can do basic post shooting cleaning/oiling. I’m definitely going to get so e slixshots

 

[BPNOOB]

Are Remington #10 and CCI #10 the same? Can I use either for my piece, or which one is best? I’m going to a local gun show and I may get lucky

 

[Whitworth]

I've repaired a few messed up screw heads by carefully peening the displaced metal down and dressing up the face and the slot with a file. Then a bit of cold blue and viola, much better looking screws.

 

[Crow Choker]

FWIW Taylors and Cimarron also offer screw's and replacement sets for Uberti/Pietta revolvers. I got some from them cheaper than VTI. The difference between Rem 10 and CCI 11's is that the skirt of the Rem 10's is longer than the CCI 11's. This helps in the retention of the cap before and after firing. They are of the same internal dimensions. Rem 11's have a short skirt and larger internal and if at all possible stay away from CCI 10's as they are alot smaller internally and won't fit down on the majority of nipples found on todays reproduction percussion revolvers. You have to push them down onto the nipple with alot of pressure with a wooden dowl (if you can get them seated at all) and can be slightly dangerous to do. Caps do take a pretty hard hit to get them to ignite, but I never felt comfortable doing so on a loaded revolver the time I bought five tins of them not knowing of their smaller internal size. They didn't fit any of the Colt/Remington/Ruger models I have (14) except one Pietta Remington cylinder and at that was a very tight fit. Still have around 450 or that 500 taking up space. A few inexperienced and/or unknowledgeable shooters will try and tell you Rem and CCI 10's are of the same dimensions as are Rem 11's and CCI 11's. Don't believe them, they know not what they are talking about.

 

[Smokerr]

Well I can fill in a bit of detail on the ASP though if someone is a true expert, then go with what they say.

My experience is with a 76 ASP my wife bought back then and gave me a while back (they do keep their secrets, did not know she had it, not bothered just funny). I suspect she hear me rant about messy BP and .........

While the gun has a very nice action, it did not get the bolt down at half cock. I had a Pietta spare parts kit, but the bolt did not match. But I ground down the latch part to fit and it worked.

I did some more research and the Uberti matches the bolt appearance (more on the latch end) and I bought one thinking it would be better long term. It did not work. An expert could tell you why but that is some fiddly stuff on that part for its function on the hammer pin it indexes off of with the plow handles and you can't see it.

So I put the Pietta modified bolt back in and its been fine.

I latter bought a 58 Remington Pietta Target. Its cylinders are too long for the ASP. My guess is the ASP has more a heritage to the Uberti line but the fit as I found with the bolt is not a straight swap. The bolt looks the same and a comparison says it is but it does not work.

I will say the ASP got me back into BP shooting (I tired it once back in the 70s like my wife had done) but got annoyed at the grease (no one talked about lead ball sealing in those days).

The ASP has a very smooth function. I would call it about S&W class. My take is parts have changed just enough to make a direct swap a challenge but only tried the bolt.

 

[BPNOOB]

FWIW Taylors and Cimarron also offer screw's and replacement sets for Uberti/Pietta revolvers. I got some from them cheaper than VTI. The difference between Rem 10 and CCI 11's is that the skirt of the Rem 10's is longer than the CCI 11's. This helps in the retention of the cap before and after firing. They are of the same internal dimensions. Rem 11's have a short skirt and larger internal and if at all possible stay away from CCI 10's as they are alot smaller internally and won't fit down on the majority of nipples found on todays reproduction percussion revolvers. You have to push them down onto the nipple with alot of pressure with a wooden dowl (if you can get them seated at all) and can be slightly dangerous to do. Caps do take a pretty hard hit to get them to ignite, but I never felt comfortable doing so on a loaded revolver the time I bought five tins of them not knowing of their smaller internal size. They didn't fit any of the Colt/Remington/Ruger models I have (14) except one Pietta Remington cylinder and at that was a very tight fit. Still have around 450 or that 500 taking up space. A few inexperienced and/or unknowledgeable shooters will try and tell you Rem and CCI 10's are of the same dimensions as are Rem 11's and CCI 11's. Don't believe them, they know not what they are talking about.

Thanks for the enlightening. I had no idea this new hobby would be quite so...involved?...Confusing? So the rem#10 are ideal for my ASP 1851 then, correct?

 

[Smokerr]

Yes it is. Kind of a fun diversion for me.

 

[Trot]

I have an Armi San Paolo 1860 Army and a Pietta hand was close enough to make it work.

 

[Ed C.]

All I can find are cci #11, I know where there’s an unlimited supply of those but I hear they could cause chain fire. I doubt there is anything scarier for a noob than a chain fire!

It takes a little on the spot common sense. The chain fires that start on the back end of a cylinder are the result of caps that may have fallen off nipples of unfired chambers or are exceptionally loose. Oversize caps can be pinched down to fit snug...not the best solution but will work. Smaller caps should seat all the way down on the nipple. If not it may take a second hammer strike to set it off. So once you understand how the caps should fit you can determine what works best. For me I found it easier to put either Track of the Wolf or slix nipples on all my revolvers and use #11's or RWS 1075's on everything.

 

[M. De Land]

Hello there! You can call me Erk or bpnoob. Before we dive into all the information I seek, allow me to tell you how I got here. I’ve fired many weapons throughout my youth, mostly WW2 era, but ever since I went plinking with my pal’s BP pistols, I’ve really wanted one of my own, preferably a colt and although I never followed through on that desire it lodged itself in my brain for 20ish years, UNTIL... my missus and I are Vintage dealers, and while exploring the scene in our new town (moved from PNW to Palm Springs CA) I came across a case with several models of Italian BP pistols within it. After looking them over, I decided on the sweet .36 1851, but first I went home to wisely(!?!) do some research - much of it on this forum and on YouTube. I learned much useful info, but firstly that based on its apparent ‘new’ condition, I would be getting either a post 2000 made pietta or uberti piece; and parts and accessories are easily obtained for either model, provided they were made post 2000. So after 3 weeks of ‘research’, I went back to the stall and got the .36 1851. It was as new condition except for 3 slightly stripped screw heads on the frame. I got home with my new prize and began looking for the markings that identified it as uberti or pietta. I won’t bore you with the details of days of confusing and often contradictory research, but now I know that I have a ASP/Euroarms 1851 distributed by Lyman made in 1977(!). So thats my problem: how do I get parts for it? Where do I find them? But first how do I determine WHICH parts it needs? I can’t assume any available parts and accessories will work, certainly not simply since I have an older somewhat obscure model made by a company that no longer exists. I don’t even know what size nipple wrench I need or how to find out. I’m so confused! Am I overthinking? Help me before I have an aneurysm. And no, the shop will not let me return/exchange it but I would rather figure this out and keep it, it is a beaut. Sorry for the long initial post, I’m a wordy guyView attachment 318125