Help with Short Flint Life

[The Baron]

I have a dilema. My Caywood Type "C" is my first flintlock. I really like the gun and enjoy shooting it immensely. On game, I've fired 6 shots... 2/2 on Tom turkeys and 4/6 on geese. Needless to say, my faith in the gun is strong in the woods. Problem is, the flint life for this gun is short. I have read in the past here that some guys get 30-50+ shots from a flint. Well, I'm lucky to get a dozen. On my goose hunt, a brand new flint lasted only 5 shots before it was too dull to spark and I had to change in the field. I was prepared and put in a new flint, and while it fired it took the edge right off. I doubt I'll get a second shot from that flint even! I think the very best I've ever got was about 20 shots from a flint, and that was exceptional. The typical is 5-10.

I am using the Tom Fuller flints from TOTW. As far as I have read, these flints are top quality but I think I recall reading that my brand of gun is known for being hard on them. Is there anything I can do to fix this? I have NO gunsmith's skills, so unless a lock was a drop-in fit, I wouldn't even attempt it. And I certainly don't see myself bending parts with any confidence. I have considered trading the gun, but I have already become rather attached to it, so that seems somewhat extreme.

Help!?

 

[Rebel]

Something isn't right with the lock for sure. I have 105 shots on the flint in my large Siler on my Jackie Brown smoothbore and it is still in real good shape. What kind of lock do youhave on the Caywood? You need to find someone who can tune and adjust it for you, whatever it is. The geometry has to be off somewhere, or the springs to strong or something. Lots of fellas here that know more about flinters than i do, but i wouldn't settle for that kind of flint life even from a production gun.

 

[Le Grand]

Baron, You didn't say if you are using those flints bevel up or bevel down. Have you tried them both ways? Le Grand

 

[roundball]

You mentioned getting a certain # of shots and then you change the flint in the field.

Based on your description I'm wondering if you're "knapping" the flint when it gets a dull edge after a certain # of shots or just replacing it with another flint altogether?

It's common for flints to get a dull spot every now and then, and then you "knapp" the edge to get it sharp again for the next set of shots until it dulls again, and repeat, thus extending the flint's life.

Can you clarify which situation is your case?

 

First off I would give Caywood a call, and see what they have to say. They may have you send them the lock for tuning. That would be your easiest and best bet. Have you used a flint hammer to reknap the flint if it dulls. The sharp lead edge of the flint needs to be at an angle so that it just shaves fine pierces of frizzen which ignite into the sparks you see. If the angle is wrong you are shaving but also breaking the lead edge of the flint.
Bill

 

[Rebel]

Yea, but he shouldn't have to knapp after only 4-5 shots. I have knapped the flint i have in now only twice in 105 shots, and then just enough to put an edge back on it.

 

[The Baron]

I bought the gun used, but as far as I know, the lock is whatever Caywood put on the gun. Sorry I don't know more. I could post a close-up photo if it might help?

The flint seems to have a better (lesser) strike angle when set bevel up. I have, however, tried flipping some bevel down to get an extra shot or two. If it helps, the flint is striking the frizzen about 2/3 way down, at perhaps a 40 degree (estimated) contact angle.

I couldn't knapp a flint to save my life. I've tried and failed. Tried again, failed. :shake: Lots of silent cursing and now I've just resolved to form a collection of flints that need knapping. :redface:

Maybe sending the lock to Caywood is a good idea, but I'd hate to be without a lock for long. Perhaps an option is to buy a second lock from them?

 

[Rebel]

Knapping isn't all that hard once you get the hang of it. Heck, if i can do it anyone can. :grin: I use a knapping awl, which is jst a small diameter piece of rd brass that i file a shallow edge arond the bottom of. Just set the edge of the awl on the front edge of the flint at about a 120 degree angle and tap it with something hard. It flakes small pieces off the bottom edge of the flint. Check here for advice on knapping.[url] http://blackpowderhunting.org/flint1.htm#top[/url]
[url] http://members.aye.net/~bspen/flintlockfaq.html[/url]
[url] http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/[/url]

You shouldn't have to buy another lock. You didn't say what kind of lock it is. May just need a good tuning.

 

[The Baron]

Sorry Rebel... I edited my post after you probably read it. As far as I know, the lock is whatever Caywood used. According to their website, that would be from "Quality Locks Inc." My lock does look like #1 in the photo.
[url] http://www.caywoodguns.com/locks.htm[/url]

 

[Rebel]

Ok, not familiar with them. Check my post above this one of yours for some links to check out that might give you some help.

 

[Le Grand]

Baron, Just another idea, are you sure you're setting the flint tighly enough in the jaws of the cock? If a flint isn't real tight, it will act funny, or simply won't work right. Le Grand

 

[trent/OH]

I went through 3 flints in 12 shots this month teaching Boy Scouts to shoot at Friendship. The lock is from L&R, and since they had a booth set up mentioned it to the owner's "How's it going?" greeting. He took the rifle in hand, and about 10 seconds later said the frizzen spring was too weak. About 90 seconds later it wore a new frizzen spring and life has been sweet ever since. That's a very roundabout way of saying that the frizzen spring was allowing the frizzen to slap back and smack the edge of the flint on every shot. That dulled or even fractured the sharp edge of the flint in a hurry.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I would go back to Caywood with your lock. Quality Locks is what one could call a certified supplier of locks for Caywood. Its kind of hard to think that a lock that expensive would need to be tuned but that is often the case. My first experience with that was years ago when a very respected gunmaker was asked why his guns were so much better at sparking and flint life than the same brand used on other rifles replied, "I use the same locks they do, only I treat the assembled locks as raw parts and tune them up to meet my standards."

Its one thing to assemble the lock and get it to spark. Its quite another level of talent to make that lock properly balanced and tuned for exceptional operation. I think it is worth the cost.

 

[The Baron]

Le Grand... good thinking. I do make sure the flint is set back against the jaw screw and that everything is tightened in good.

trent/OH... that is a very interesting theory. I will check and see if the frizzen is springing back.:hmm:

Thanks to everyone for all the help thus far. I think the suggestion to call Caywood is a good one, so that is on my list. I reckon I'd best give the manufacturer a chance to help!

 

[MikeFromON]

Do you keep your flint and frizzen clean? It could be that fouling is preventing your lock from making sparks. I had the same problem as you, but now I wipe my flint and frizzen clean after every shot and my lock sparks every time. I shot my sawn agate about 50 times before I put on a proper English flint, which has given me about 25 shots so far. Both rocks have plenty of life left in them.

 

[The Baron]

Yup... I always wipe the flint/frizzen down between shots, often with an alcohol swab every 6 or so.

We're not far apart, Mike. I grew up in Renfrew county. What do you chase with your flintlock... deer and bear, I suppose? :hmm:

 

[mmahlock]

The flint seems to have a better (lesser) strike angle when set bevel up. I have, however, tried flipping some bevel down to get an extra shot or two. If it helps, the flint is striking the frizzen about 2/3 way down, at perhaps a 40 degree (estimated) contact angle.

Your problem may have to do with the size of the flint you are using. If you go to the TOW ammunition page and select the flint caliber you shoot, select the flints and move down the Tom Fuller page to the discussion on sizing the flint to the lock. Note: You won't find this if you go to flints and select Tom Fuller, it is only accessed through the ammunition page. DON'T ASK :hmm:

I hope this is of some help.

BTW, the Gun Works has a nice brass knapping hammer, the one with the heart handle. Just tap on the leading edge of the flint until pieces flake off.

 

[Rusty Old Gunns]

Yup... I always wipe the flint/frizzen down between shots, often with an alcohol swab every 6 or so.

Maybe a dumb question, but I'm good at dumb questions. You are using a leather or lead around that flint, right? If it's just a flint in the jaws, that would be doing it.

Also a quick knapp is "With an empty gun" Hold the frizzen open just slightly. Holding it so that it can't move when struck, cock and fire. When the flint hits the frizzed and the frizzen doesn't move, it knapps is well enough for a few shots. Though regular knapping is the best way to do it. Between shots in the field this can get you 2 or 3 more shots

I personally use the back (spine) of my trade knife with light raps. In re-enacting the barrel end of the bayonett works great as well.

Do you hunt with a bayonett?

Good luck, my friend.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I ahd that problem with my Pet Harpers. Seems they forgot to tune the frizzen spring and it was way to heavy. 4-6 lbs was needed, mine was 250 lbs!

 

[The Baron]

Thank you all for the continued assistance!

I use a leather flint holder, and always make sure the flint is nice and tight.

After some outstanding information from paulvallandigham (thank you Paul!) I am now convinced my fizzen spring is way too hard. It seems the correct frizzen spring strength is about 2-3 pounds. While I have not yet measured mine, I am quite confident it is far, far more than that. And, the mainspring should be around 10 pounds. Well, again, I haven't measured mine but I am quite confident it is much heavier than that.

So, I suspect lightening up both springs will go a very long way to extend my flint life. I have some instruction on that, but I may just start by calling Caywood and seeing what they can do for me. I am just too chicken to start disassembling my lock and filing things without a supervisor who knows what the heck they are doing. :redface:

Here's another question... if I unscrew my frizzen from the lock (1 screw), will I be able to get the frizzen back on? It seems that the frizzen spring might push up and have to be depressed to allow installation of the frizzen again? (and I suspect there is a tool for that?).