Help with T/C FlintLock Hawken

[dbiggers]

I've had this .50 cal hawken for several years now and just recently recieved the upgraded lock. The 2 problems i seem to be having is:

1.After having installed the new lock, my set trigger will no longer work, regardless of the adjustments of the screw. Front trigger works as good as always.

2.Now before i ask about this problem let me say that i'am aware of the ole "FliNCH Lock" rifles, :grin: being the biggest problem with accuracy. And i think i do pretty good about holding a steady aim, but here's whats happening. When i shoot the 1st shot, say between 30 or 50 yards, it does fairly good (within a pie plate) but the 2nd or third shots, are not even on the board. We are talking about a piece of plywood that is 4 feet by 4 feet. Now after i throughly clean the barrel, the first shot is in the pie plate again and 2nd & 3rd shot is either barely on the board or not at all. :cursing:

Whats going on with that?? I once had a Sile, Italian made .50 cal Hawken P/C rifle, that i could shoot the handle off a sauce pan lid, at 100 paces, "Free Handed" and this rifle was almost identical to the T/C except for the t/c being a flinter. Please "HELP" cause until i can get me a Long Rifle, i'am stuck with my Hawken and i'd really like to see it shoot alot more accurately. Thanks.

 

[rabjr]

I don't know if theres an easy fix for that trigger problem but T/C is good to deal with. Call them and ask about the problem. They may have you ship the gun back and they will get it back to working order as their warranty is second to none.

Don't know what load your using but have you looked at your spent patches and determined they are not the problem?

 

[roundball]

1.After having installed the new lock, my set trigger will no longer work, regardless of the adjustments of the screw. Front trigger works as good as always.

Well, the lock and trigger assembly are two completely separate operations of course...and changing a lock should have no bearing on the trigger operation at you described it.

I know that a new lock assembly can cause the opposite problem...where the front trigger is very heavy but the set trigger still works OK.
And that comes from the recent years manufacture of "sears" having the cross arm a little too long and it drags against the back wall of wood when inserted into the lock mortise.
This drag makes it difficult to raise with the front trigger, but the powerful cocked spring of the set trigger snaps it hard enough so it works.

So what I'm about to suggest is a stretch but I don't know what else it might be...if you're not careful when you slide the lock in, if the set (rear) trigger is relaxed in the up position, the sear's crossarm can slide in "underneath" the raised set trigger and therefore not be able to latch and operate.

Pull off the lock, look inside when you reinstall it to be sure the rear trigger is down so the sear crossarm goes over the top of it.

A stretch but I can't imagine anything else at the moment.

 

[sparsons]

I bought a Thompson Hawken .50 about 3 years ago and had the same problem. First shot not bad but down hill after that. Everyone I talked to around here had the same problem. Sent it back to Thompson and got no help there. My problem ended up being the harmonics of the barrel. The barrel will vibrate and if the the stock and the barrel are not matched it will throw the ball--who knows where. You might try floating the barrel, that worked great for me, or bedding it.

 

[dbiggers]

You might try floating the barrel, that worked great for me, or bedding it.

Ok!! I guess i'am about to learn something new here.

What does "floating the barrel & bedding it" mean?? And please explain in grave detail.

 

[dbiggers]

Well, the lock and trigger assembly are two completely separate operations of course...and changing a lock should have no bearing on the trigger operation at you described it.

And you are right. I told it wrong, i haven't touched the gun since last fall and i mixed the problem up. :youcrazy: Sorry!!! :redface:

What its doing is: The front trigger will not work, unless i set the back trigger. The front trigger will freely pull all the way back with the hammer cocked and it hits a wall and nothing happens. I can then squeeze the back set trigger and the front is now a hair trigger, but it now will work.

So!!! what do you think now could be the problem with that???

 

[rabjr]

Floating a barrel means relieving all the wood in the barrel channel that would be touching the barrel. Most people can pass a piece of paper or a dollar bill between the barrel and forearm of free floated gun with no problem.

Bedding is the opposite, using a bedding compound like Acraglas the forearm channel is roughed up and the compound applied inside it. The barrel treated with a release agent is replaced on the gun and the result if done right is a perfect fit of the barrel/wood. Kinda like moulded to each other.

 

[Fishhog]

I've had this .50 cal hawken for several years now and just recently recieved the upgraded lock. The 2 problems i seem to be having is:

1.After having installed the new lock, my set trigger will no longer work, regardless of the adjustments of the screw. Front trigger works as good as always.
Une,I would look as Roundball sugested of an inner wood clearance problem.My 3 new lock asseblies that I put into older 70/s stocks ALL had to be relieved a little to fit and work properly.Two just to drop in and one for the trigger to work right.Also I think you may want to look at the hinged tang/breech ,make sure it is flush to the wood and fits tight,screwed down solid.If not bed it so it will.Look for cracks under the tang.just a few more options on the change of impact issues.I know harmonics play a role in accuracy but IMHO I really think this may be your problem instead.Let us know what you find...Ray

2.Now before i ask about this problem let me say that i'am aware of the ole "FliNCH Lock" rifles, :grin: being the biggest problem with accuracy. And i think i do pretty good about holding a steady aim, but here's whats happening. When i shoot the 1st shot, say between 30 or 50 yards, it does fairly good (within a pie plate) but the 2nd or third shots, are not even on the board. We are talking about a piece of plywood that is 4 feet by 4 feet. Now after i throughly clean the barrel, the first shot is in the pie plate again and 2nd & 3rd shot is either barely on the board or not at all. :cursing:

Whats going on with that?? I once had a Sile, Italian made .50 cal Hawken P/C rifle, that i could shoot the handle off a sauce pan lid, at 100 paces, "Free Handed" and this rifle was almost identical to the T/C except for the t/c being a flinter. Please "HELP" cause until i can get me a Long Rifle, i'am stuck with my Hawken and i'd really like to see it shoot alot more accurately. Thanks.

 

[Fishhog]

I've had this .50 cal hawken for several years now and just recently recieved the upgraded lock. The 2 problems i seem to be having is:

1.After having installed the new lock, my set trigger will no longer work, regardless of the adjustments of the screw. Front trigger works as good as always.

2.Now before i ask about this problem let me say that i'am aware of the ole "FliNCH Lock" rifles, :grin: being the biggest problem with accuracy. And i think i do pretty good about holding a steady aim, but here's whats happening. When i shoot the 1st shot, say between 30 or 50 yards, it does fairly good (within a pie plate) but the 2nd or third shots, are not even on the board. We are talking about a piece of plywood that is 4 feet by 4 feet. Now after i throughly clean the barrel, the first shot is in the pie plate again and 2nd & 3rd shot is either barely on the board or not at all. :cursing:

Whats going on with that?? I once had a Sile, Italian made .50 cal Hawken P/C rifle, that i could shoot the handle off a sauce pan lid, at 100 paces, "Free Handed" and this rifle was almost identical to the T/C except for the t/c being a flinter. Please "HELP" cause until i can get me a Long Rifle, i'am stuck with my Hawken and i'd really like to see it shoot alot more accurately. Thanks.

Look at the tang/breech area for a solid tight fit.Look for cracks under the tang area.If you need to bed it to get it solid.That may be the erratic accuracy problems..My 3 new style TC locks were put into 70's stocks all needed inletting to fit and drop in.One need removal of wood to let the trigger work properly as Roundball suggested..I can't believe barrel harmonics would make such an impact at moderate ranges,especially that great..I think the problem is more of a stock related problem..Let us know what you find..Ray

 

[roundball]

Well, the lock and trigger assembly are two completely separate operations of course...and changing a lock should have no bearing on the trigger operation at you described it.

And you are right. I told it wrong, i haven't touched the gun since last fall and i mixed the problem up. :youcrazy: Sorry!!! :redface:

What its doing is: The front trigger will not work, unless i set the back trigger. The front trigger will freely pull all the way back with the hammer cocked and it hits a wall and nothing happens. I can then squeeze the back set trigger and the front is now a hair trigger, but it now will work.

So!!! what do you think now could be the problem with that???

OK, that makes more sense, is logical, etc.
Think about it this way...you have a perfectly functioning rifle, you simply install a new lock, and immediately have this problem. And based on actual experience of this happening to me 3-4 times by putting new production locks into older stocks, I compared them and found that the new "slightly longer" crossarm on the sear is hitting wood, binding up, etc.

The front trigger raises the sear crossarm up to a point where the inside end of the crossarm contacts wood and stops...but when using the set trigger (rear trigger) the powerful spring force snaps that set trigger up against the crossbar so hard that its enough to disengage the sear tip from the tumbler.

Using a grinder or a grinding wheel in a dremel tool, remove the lock and shorten the tip of the sear's crossarm bar 1/16". AND...the goods news is even if it doesn't fix your pro blem, the crossarm bar is literally way longer than it needs to be and shortening it a mere 1/16" has no other effect what-so-ever.

(You can do this without disassembling the lock...just wrap a clean cloth tightly around the lock assembly so that only the end of the sear crossarm is sticking out, to avoid getting any filings & debris down into the internals of the lock)

SET TRIGGER OPERATION
Yes, the 'set trigger' is designed to be an adjustable 'hair trigger', the degree of which is controlled by the tiny screw between the triggers.

When you set the set trigger (the rear trigger) that rear trigger is actually cocking a big spring and then the tip of the rear trigger 'latches' under a lip on the front trigger.

When the front trigger is touched, it "releases" or "unlatches" that rear trigger that's sitting there with all that spring tension on it, and the rear trigger is what flys up and smacks the sear's crossarm.

(When the front trigger is used by itself, it raises up and moves the sear crossarm...but when used with the set trigger, all that the front trigger does is "release" the cocked rear trigger).

If you haven't already done so, remove the trigger guard, then the trigger assembly and operate it in your hand...a demo (picture) is worth a thousand words.

 

[dbiggers]

Well, the lock and trigger assembly are two completely separate operations of course...and changing a lock should have no bearing on the trigger operation at you described it.

And you are right. I told it wrong, i haven't touched the gun since last fall and i mixed the problem up. :youcrazy: Sorry!!! :redface:

What its doing is: The front trigger will not work, unless i set the back trigger. The front trigger will freely pull all the way back with the hammer cocked and it hits a wall and nothing happens. I can then squeeze the back set trigger and the front is now a hair trigger, but it now will work.

So!!! what do you think now could be the problem with that???

OK, that makes more sense, is logical, etc.
Think about it this way...you have a perfectly functioning rifle, you simply install a new lock, and immediately have this problem. And based on actual experience of this happening to me 3-4 times by putting new production locks into older stocks, I compared them and found that the new "slightly longer" crossarm on the sear is hitting wood, binding up, etc.

The front trigger raises the sear crossarm up to a point where the inside end of the crossarm contacts wood and stops...but when using the set trigger (rear trigger) the powerful spring force snaps that set trigger up against the crossbar so hard that its enough to disengage the sear tip from the tumbler.

Using a grinder or a grinding wheel in a dremel tool, remove the lock and shorten the tip of the sear's crossarm bar 1/16". AND...the goods news is even if it doesn't fix your pro blem, the crossarm bar is literally way longer than it needs to be and shortening it a mere 1/16" has no other effect what-so-ever.

(You can do this without disassembling the lock...just wrap a clean cloth tightly around the lock assembly so that only the end of the sear crossarm is sticking out, to avoid getting any filings & debris down into the internals of the lock)

SET TRIGGER OPERATION
Yes, the 'set trigger' is designed to be an adjustable 'hair trigger', the degree of which is controlled by the tiny screw between the triggers.

When you set the set trigger (the rear trigger) that rear trigger is actually cocking a big spring and then the tip of the rear trigger 'latches' under a lip on the front trigger.

When the front trigger is touched, it "releases" or "unlatches" that rear trigger that's sitting there with all that spring tension on it, and the rear trigger is what flys up and smacks the sear's crossarm.

(When the front trigger is used by itself, it raises up and moves the sear crossarm...but when used with the set trigger, all that the front trigger does is "release" the cocked rear trigger).

If you haven't already done so, remove the trigger guard, then the trigger assembly and operate it in your hand...a demo (picture) is worth a thousand words.

I may have to get back with you on an indepth, how to/step by step, converstaion on fixing that problem. Have you walk me through it so to speak.

Now, what do think about the accuracy problem i listed, any suggestions there??

 

[Harley Donaldson]

There another thing that you can check. The early sears were made in a simple "L" shape, but later ones were a little beefier at the right angle some had a fillet added. Look at where this spot is on the sear arm and determine if the inside of the 90 degree is dragging on the edge of the hole that the sear arm passes through. Hope that you can figure out what I am clumsaly ? trying to describe. Good Luck. Now i've given myself a headache and shall have to retire early Harley

 

[dbiggers]

There another thing that you can check. The early sears were made in a simple "L" shape, but later ones were a little beefier at the right angle some had a fillet added. Look at where this spot is on the sear arm and determine if the inside of the 90 degree is dragging on the edge of the hole that the sear arm passes through. Hope that you can figure out what I am clumsaly ? trying to describe. Good Luck. Now i've given myself a headache and shall have to retire early Harley

Ok!! Thank you, and everyone else for all the tips. I plan on selling this rifle and i want it to be right, before i put it up for sale. Thanks again.