:haha:Fulminator said:
Yeah, but that doesn't mean they weren't tryin ta poison us!!
Sure seemed like it at the time!(every time!)
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Home made patch lube/bore wipe
- Thread starter Jim C
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Yeah, but that doesn't mean they weren't tryin ta poison us!!
Sure seemed like it at the time!(every time!)
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How water soluble is castor oil.
Also, is this something you could use as a bore protectant as well.
Also, is this something you could use as a bore protectant as well.
Castor oil is not water soluble at all.
It is soluble in alcohol and alcohol is soluble in water so a mixture of castor oil, alcohol and water can be used to make (among other things) Stumpkillers Moose Juice which is an excellent patch lube.
It is soluble in alcohol and alcohol is soluble in water so a mixture of castor oil, alcohol and water can be used to make (among other things) Stumpkillers Moose Juice which is an excellent patch lube.
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Hunter John
36 Cal.
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Right.
Just have to remember to mix the castor oil with the alcohol first, shake well, then mix with the distilled water.
Made the mistake once of mixing castor oil with distilled water, then added the alcohol. What I was left with was an alcohol smelling water with a nice oil skim floating on the top. No matter how hard I shook the mixture, it never mixed. I just created a stinkin mess, no other way to put it. :td:
As long as you mix the thick castor oil with 92% or > alcohol, and shake well, you'll be fine.
Just have to remember to mix the castor oil with the alcohol first, shake well, then mix with the distilled water.
Made the mistake once of mixing castor oil with distilled water, then added the alcohol. What I was left with was an alcohol smelling water with a nice oil skim floating on the top. No matter how hard I shook the mixture, it never mixed. I just created a stinkin mess, no other way to put it. :td:
As long as you mix the thick castor oil with 92% or > alcohol, and shake well, you'll be fine.
Billnpatti
Cannon
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If you do not have a copy of this bit of literature, do yourself a favor and buy a copy from Dutch. www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com The subject of determining just want ratio of solvent to lubricant will give you the best accuracy from your particular rifle. It also covers the proper way to dry the patch material to insure that the lubricant of choice is evenly distributed. I highly recommend this piece of literature. It is worth far more than the very reasonable price that Dutch charges.
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Castor oil is available from dirt bike and Kart shops.
http://www.amazon.com/Klotz-Oil-Benol-Racing-Castor/dp/B006WFSBNU
The drug store kind is not purified as much. It is more like olive oil as far a processing. I would use the Benol type. Either one will make a varnish type residue when burned. That is the issue with using it in an engine. IT gunks up the head and muffler. The varnish prevents the piston from seizing in a hot lean run, better than a synthetic. I would experiment with a synthetic too.
http://www.amazon.com/Klotz-Oil-Benol-Racing-Castor/dp/B006WFSBNU
The drug store kind is not purified as much. It is more like olive oil as far a processing. I would use the Benol type. Either one will make a varnish type residue when burned. That is the issue with using it in an engine. IT gunks up the head and muffler. The varnish prevents the piston from seizing in a hot lean run, better than a synthetic. I would experiment with a synthetic too.
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AZbpBurner
54 Cal.
I started using castor oil on RB patches a few months ago. Applied to a patch straight, it leaves excessive crud in the barrel. But when mixed as 5 parts denatured alcohol to 1 part castor oil, applied to patches, and allow the alcohol to evaporate, it works as a dry patch that is cleaner and easier to load than any other patch material I've ever used. I've been using tallow + beeswax for at least 4 decades, but now it's time for me to switch to castor oil.
My first trials for the 5:1 treated patches were with my .62 cal Fusil, since if I had cleaning issues, the smoothbore is easier to quickly clean out tough residue. The plan was to load and fire until the PRB became difficult to load - then I would swab out the bore to see what awful build-up there was. I lost actual count, but since I put 12 balls in a tray to load from and had used 2 trays, I decided that, even though loading was still easy, I'd swab anyway - what I found was a little residue on the patch, but the patch was still clean enough to swab with again later.
I went the rest of the day with only swabbing after I was finished shooting, and the patch was so clean (no crud build-up) that it was scary.
For my .54 cal, I always swab after it gets hard to load - after about 4 rounds. I went 6 before it was any harder than usual - I use a tight enough patch to begin with, that I need to seat the ball with a short starter and mallet. Nevertheless, after a couple of hours shooting, I swabbed a lot less than when I use my tallow + beeswax lube.
I mix a small amount of castor oil & DA, and apply to a stack of dry patches until all are evenly moistened - I use a dropper instead of soaking them & I spread them out to air dry overnite. The result is a nearly dry patch with enough castor oil absorbed in it to lube it's way down the bore and scrub out any powder residue, and not saturated enough to squeeze out any appreciable amount of oil to coat the bore to collect powder residue fouling.
I don't see any change in accuracy or POI.
My first trials for the 5:1 treated patches were with my .62 cal Fusil, since if I had cleaning issues, the smoothbore is easier to quickly clean out tough residue. The plan was to load and fire until the PRB became difficult to load - then I would swab out the bore to see what awful build-up there was. I lost actual count, but since I put 12 balls in a tray to load from and had used 2 trays, I decided that, even though loading was still easy, I'd swab anyway - what I found was a little residue on the patch, but the patch was still clean enough to swab with again later.
I went the rest of the day with only swabbing after I was finished shooting, and the patch was so clean (no crud build-up) that it was scary.
For my .54 cal, I always swab after it gets hard to load - after about 4 rounds. I went 6 before it was any harder than usual - I use a tight enough patch to begin with, that I need to seat the ball with a short starter and mallet. Nevertheless, after a couple of hours shooting, I swabbed a lot less than when I use my tallow + beeswax lube.
I mix a small amount of castor oil & DA, and apply to a stack of dry patches until all are evenly moistened - I use a dropper instead of soaking them & I spread them out to air dry overnite. The result is a nearly dry patch with enough castor oil absorbed in it to lube it's way down the bore and scrub out any powder residue, and not saturated enough to squeeze out any appreciable amount of oil to coat the bore to collect powder residue fouling.
I don't see any change in accuracy or POI.
Greenjoytj
54 Cal.
Castor oil is one of the sliperiest vegetable oils. Therefore I think that it's use as a patch lube in a smooth bore gun would be very benificial to longer range accuracy by reducing the amount of spin emparted to the PRB which should reduce the amount the ball will curve in flight (hook or slice in golf terms).
A heavy oil:alcohol ratio would be best in a smoothbore application to gain the benefit of this slippery oil.
For use in a rifle were you don't want the extreme slipperyness of castor oil to work against long range accuracy by allowing the PRB to skip or skid across the rifling which would have the effect of changeing the rifling twist ratio to something much less than required to stabilize the ball. An experiment shooting castor lubed PRB's to find the best accuracy oil ratio would be required. The ratio that gives the best long range accuracy will probably not be the ratio that gives the most shots between wipes. You will have to decide on which side of this compromise best fits your shooting needs.
I use the "dry patch system" in my 54 cal GPR, so damp wiping between shots to maintain a standard bore condition is just part of my normal loading process. When I use up my supply of Ballistol I will try the castor oil lube.
Read the Wikipeda page on castor oil, as Mr. Spock would say fascinating - there is even a product called castor wax.....mmmm.
A heavy oil:alcohol ratio would be best in a smoothbore application to gain the benefit of this slippery oil.
For use in a rifle were you don't want the extreme slipperyness of castor oil to work against long range accuracy by allowing the PRB to skip or skid across the rifling which would have the effect of changeing the rifling twist ratio to something much less than required to stabilize the ball. An experiment shooting castor lubed PRB's to find the best accuracy oil ratio would be required. The ratio that gives the best long range accuracy will probably not be the ratio that gives the most shots between wipes. You will have to decide on which side of this compromise best fits your shooting needs.
I use the "dry patch system" in my 54 cal GPR, so damp wiping between shots to maintain a standard bore condition is just part of my normal loading process. When I use up my supply of Ballistol I will try the castor oil lube.
Read the Wikipeda page on castor oil, as Mr. Spock would say fascinating - there is even a product called castor wax.....mmmm.
I just finally got a chance to use these patches of 1 part CA to 5 parts DA this weekend.
Result: My .015" cotton patches I use with a .530 RB were burnt to a crisp.
I've been using T/C #13 bore cleaner as a patch lube up until now, lube the patches to the point they are damp but no lube can be squeezed out of them. This is shooting 70grns of Goex ff. Patches lubed with #13 allow me to shoot many shots with out wiping the bore, and the recovered patches look good with burn marks out to just shy of the very edge of the patch.
I've been looking for a dryer patch lube that I could hopefully use for practice shooting, rendevous events, and hunting. The #13 as a lube isn't going to be good IMO for hunting, as I think it is too damp to not foul some of the powder when left in the barrel for several hours.
The CA/DA lube not only burnt the patches to a crisp, but took a lot more effort to load even a second time without wiping the bore. Instead of the PRB being pushed down the bore like with the #13 after using a short starter, I had to pound the load down into the bore (by hand, no mallet). I know this had to deform the RB. I was just shooting free hand at a stump, so no groups to report...but with the burnt to a crisp patches and deforming the RB I can guess what they would look like.
So, is it a pipe dream to find a patch lube that is dry enough for a hunting application but doesn't require deforming the ball for a second or even third loading before swabbing?
Sorry this is so long, but wanted to try to give all the information needed for you experienced people to comment. Also, my method before shooting...I store with oil in the bore, so I use rubbing alcohol to remove the oil before shooting, and just start shooting on a dry and clean bore.
Result: My .015" cotton patches I use with a .530 RB were burnt to a crisp.
I've been using T/C #13 bore cleaner as a patch lube up until now, lube the patches to the point they are damp but no lube can be squeezed out of them. This is shooting 70grns of Goex ff. Patches lubed with #13 allow me to shoot many shots with out wiping the bore, and the recovered patches look good with burn marks out to just shy of the very edge of the patch.
I've been looking for a dryer patch lube that I could hopefully use for practice shooting, rendevous events, and hunting. The #13 as a lube isn't going to be good IMO for hunting, as I think it is too damp to not foul some of the powder when left in the barrel for several hours.
The CA/DA lube not only burnt the patches to a crisp, but took a lot more effort to load even a second time without wiping the bore. Instead of the PRB being pushed down the bore like with the #13 after using a short starter, I had to pound the load down into the bore (by hand, no mallet). I know this had to deform the RB. I was just shooting free hand at a stump, so no groups to report...but with the burnt to a crisp patches and deforming the RB I can guess what they would look like.
So, is it a pipe dream to find a patch lube that is dry enough for a hunting application but doesn't require deforming the ball for a second or even third loading before swabbing?
Sorry this is so long, but wanted to try to give all the information needed for you experienced people to comment. Also, my method before shooting...I store with oil in the bore, so I use rubbing alcohol to remove the oil before shooting, and just start shooting on a dry and clean bore.
Jim C
45 Cal.
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I finally tried those out myself this past weekend. I didn't experience any burnt or cut patches, but I ended up wetting them with spit because I made them up a week before hand and they were so dry by shooting time that they didn't feel like they had any lube at all in them. They were a bear to ram home too if I didn't wipe the bore after every shot. It might help to mix it two or three to one instead of five to one. Think I'll just stick with the bore butter myself.
Buy the Dutch system and follow it. His patch recipe WORKS
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If God had meant you to use castor oil for patch lube, He'd have put it in your saliva. :grin:
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Dutch system is great on modern steel barrels.
Wrought iron barrels from originals don't like the system. It is too dry and will work for range shooting. If you plan to leave the gun loaded for some time, the porous iron will suck the lube from the patch. Best results so far with wrought iron is either beef tallow or grisco or mixes of those with beeswax. That is also the traditionally recommended patch lube according to historical documents: https://books.google.de/books?id=E...&q=vom schiessen mit gezogenen rohren&f=false
Wrought iron barrels from originals don't like the system. It is too dry and will work for range shooting. If you plan to leave the gun loaded for some time, the porous iron will suck the lube from the patch. Best results so far with wrought iron is either beef tallow or grisco or mixes of those with beeswax. That is also the traditionally recommended patch lube according to historical documents: https://books.google.de/books?id=E...&q=vom schiessen mit gezogenen rohren&f=false
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Best $20.00 you'll likely spend in this sport :thumbsup:
