Hopkins & Allen question

[griffiga]

Not an H&A, but still an U/H flintlock

I was only kidding, but now I've seen everything!!!

 

[longcruise]

Now, a Hopkins and Allen under hammer flintlock would be a sight to behold! I actually have one of their under hammer pistols, and it has a half cock, but all the caps I've been able to find are too small. Perhaps a new nipple?

You can try chucking the nipple in a drill and taking it down a fine file or some wet or dry glued to a popsicle stick.

 

[Ontario47]

Watch the trigger movement as you cock the hammer on a lock with no sear . The trigger will (should) be farther forward just before the trigger nose falls into the half cock and farther rearward just before it falls into the full cock notch. Unless you are superhuman at releasing the trigger it will not catch the half cock entry which is closer to the center of the tumbler/hammer than the release edge of the full cock notch. A bad trigger job can reverse this and cause problems. Hold the muzzle up to watch this movement on a lock with a sear and no trigger spring. A lock with a "fly" in the tumbler/hammer that is working properly will block/cover the half cock notch when fired and hold the trigger/sear nose out of the half cock notch.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Now, a Hopkins and Allen under hammer flintlock would be a sight to behold! I actually have one of their under hammer pistols, and it has a half cock, but all the caps I've been able to find are too small. Perhaps a new nipple?

Somebody has been dry-firing it. Yes - a new nipple is needed.

 

[arcticap]

Another question; I've heard that one needs forearm protection from cap shrapnel on these guns. Is that so?
If it is, what are the solutions?

Yes, my young son and I experienced it enough with the 1st version buggy rifle to wear a cutoff sock to cover our wrist and forearm.
This H&A model has a short stock and it was fired in warm weather while wearing short sleeves.
I'm not sure if it was shrapnel or just little specks of hot powder or both.
But once it was felt then I decided that protection would become standard equipment when shooting the gun.
The nipple on that gun was located right next to the inside of its flat faced breech plug which may not have been typical of their rifle receivers, because it had a straight receiver that more closely resembled their boot pistol.
That may have created some extra back flash through the nipple cone.
I had installed a brand new Uncle Mike's nipple when I first bought the gun.
The recess in the stock for the hammer & mainspring also had some burnt powder accumulated on it so it was definitely noticeable.
But I never fired another H&A model to compare it to.

 

[toot]

Another question; I've heard that one needs forearm protection from cap shrapnel on these guns. Is that so?

If it is, what are the solutions?

funny, you never see people lined up a the local hospital, with cap schrapnell damage??

 

[Billy Boy]

Another question; I've heard that one needs forearm protection from cap shrapnel on these guns. Is that so?

If it is, what are the solutions?

I have a Billinghurst style UH, never had a cap shrapnel issue, Browning 22 Auto, sleeve full, every time

 

[Griz44Mag]

Yes, my young son and I experienced it enough with the 1st version buggy rifle to wear a cutoff sock to cover our wrist and forearm.
This H&A model has a short stock and it was fired in warm weather while wearing short sleeves.
I'm not sure if it was shrapnel or just little specks of hot powder or both.
But once it was felt then I decided that protection would become standard equipment when shooting the gun.
The nipple on that gun was located right next to the inside of its flat faced breech plug which may not have been typical of their rifle receivers, because it had a straight receiver that more closely resembled their boot pistol.
That may have created some extra back flash through the nipple cone.
I had installed a brand new Uncle Mike's nipple when I first bought the gun.
The recess in the stock for the hammer & mainspring also had some burnt powder accumulated on it so it was definitely noticeable.
But I never fired another H&A model to compare it to.

Sounds like the cup that is normally soldered around the nipple hole is missing.

 

[arcticap]

You're right, it doesn't have a flash cup.

 

[JIMHAY97]

Yes there is a problem with the hammer catching. Usually it doesn't cause an issue but if you are gently and slowly squeezing the trigger it can catch the tip of the notch which will break the nose off the trigger and possibly damage the hammer too, it has happened to me. It's possible to shorten the tip on the half cock notch on the hammer and that'll usually eliminate possible problems and still leave you with a reliable half cock. I don't have a photo handy but if you had a gun in front of you you would see what I mean, they are very simple. Deer Creek may still have parts and parts show up on that evil auction site from time to time, hammer & trigger are usually $20+ there. It might be possible to repair the damage but it wouldn't be easy.

Hi Hawkeye, I was wondering if you can tell me the center to center distance between the hammer and trigger pivot points. I'm building a underhammer from scratch and am having trouble determining how to drill and ream the frame for them. Thanks, Jim

 

[vtflatlander]

Now, a Hopkins and Allen under hammer flintlock would be a sight to behold! I actually have one of their under hammer pistols, and it has a half cock, but all the caps I've been able to find are too small. Perhaps a new nipple?

 

[vtflatlander]

Now, a Hopkins and Allen under hammer flintlock would be a sight to behold! I actually have one of their under hammer pistols, and it has a half cock, but all the caps I've been able to find are too small. Perhaps a new nipple?

I have an H & A under hammer boot pistol. I use No 11 caps no problem with them fitting the nipple. Maybe you can try replacing the nipple. This pistol is fun to shoot.

 

[hanshi]

Most of the shooting I did with the H&A was done while wearing long sleeves, but not all the time. After many years of shooting I think the trigger guard/hammer & trigger spring (which eventually died) weakened quite a bit. I did notice some "spitting" from the nipple on occasion. Then one day at the range while I was shooting I laid a towel in my lap as a precaution. Imagine my shock when I looked down and saw the towel was on fire. I retired that rifle after that. Haven't been able to find a new replacement spring that worked. Tried a couple of used ones but they took "set" rather quickly.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Hi Hawkeye, I was wondering if you can tell me the center to center distance between the hammer and trigger pivot points. I'm building a underhammer from scratch and am having trouble determining how to drill and ream the frame for them. Thanks, Jim

Rifle and pistol both show 1.050"

 

[JIMHAY97]

Rifle and pistol both show 1.050"
View attachment 48551

Thanks. I've been using a little jig with various spacing to try. Will try 1.05 tomorrow.

 

[Newtire]

Most of the shooting I did with the H&A was done while wearing long sleeves, but not all the time. After many years of shooting I think the trigger guard/hammer & trigger spring (which eventually died) weakened quite a bit. I did notice some "spitting" from the nipple on occasion. Then one day at the range while I was shooting I laid a towel in my lap as a precaution. Imagine my shock when I looked down and saw the towel was on fire. I retired that rifle after that. Haven't been able to find a new replacement spring that worked. Tried a couple of used ones but they took "set" rather quickly.

Yeah, seems strange that no one makes a replacement spring for these things. I would pick up a few just to have some extras.

 

[toot]

Sounds like the cup that is normally soldered around the nipple hole is missing.
View attachment 48525

right . they are not removable.

 

[JIMHAY97]

Rifle and pistol both show 1.050"
View attachment 48551

I set my hammer up in a small jig and using a dial indicator measured that the face of the half cock sticks out .025 more then the full cock notch as it pivots around. So no matter how much spacing between hammer and trigger I would still have a problem. Time to trim half cock notch I guess. Thank's again.

 

[hawkeye2]

I set my hammer up in a small jig and using a dial indicator measured that the face of the half cock sticks out .025 more then the full cock notch as it pivots around. So no matter how much spacing between hammer and trigger I would still have a problem. Time to trim half cock notch I guess. Thank's again.

Thanks for the measurements, that confirms the problem I was trying to tell others about earlier. I broke the trigger nose on my wife's H&A while working up a load and I have another that someone had done the same thing to. I had bought my wife's gun as a kit from Blue Grouse (no longer in business) and at the time Deer Creek was selling H&A kits and parts. I called them to get a trigger and explained to the nice lady on the phone why I needed one. She responded that I would need a hammer as well as it usually damaged the hammer (she was quite knowledgeable of the issue, seems to happen frequently). I tried to tell her I didn't need the hammer but she insisted and told me it was warranty, no charge. I told her I had bought the gun from someone else but she said they stood behind them, great people. I don't know if they still have any parts and they haven't listed parts or the kits for years. Hammers, triggers, breech plugs and sometimes a mainspring show up on that evil auction site from time to time.

Blue Grouse used to have a sketch of how to cut the half cock notch back but his site is long gone. It can be cut back quite a bit and not affect its function. If you do it in your jig could you post how much you cut off for everyone? It probably wouldn't hurt to file a slight bevel on the back side of the sear nose too. As is it's a right angle edge.

 

[longcruise]

Most of the shooting I did with the H&A was done while wearing long sleeves, but not all the time. After many years of shooting I think the trigger guard/hammer & trigger spring (which eventually died) weakened quite a bit. I did notice some "spitting" from the nipple on occasion. Then one day at the range while I was shooting I laid a towel in my lap as a precaution. Imagine my shock when I looked down and saw the towel was on fire. I retired that rifle after that. Haven't been able to find a new replacement spring that worked. Tried a couple of used ones but they took "set" rather quickly.

How about doing a new heat treatment on it. Anneal to soft, harden and anneal to correct tension.