Hopkins and Allen Underhammer questions

[Snow on the Roof]

I recently aquired one of these in .45 cal with a near perfect bore. Couple of questions. What is the true bore size? Would you know the ROT? I've an old H&A scissor mold in .433 is that correct size? What about a conical? TOW has a Lee double cavity mould for a .440 RB and a .45 cal 200 grain REAL conical, would this be the correct size? Additionally would anyone have an idea for a source for a Lollypop reciever sight for this gun? Numrich made such a sight for this gun and mine is drilled and tapped for such. My old eyes don't do well with the factory semi-buckhorn sight.

 

Snow,
Typically the H&A rifles have a slightly undersized bore. You will find that a .440 ball will be what you want with a .015 patch. The ROT should be 1:48 which will shoot a PRB very well but you will have to fight for the same accuracy with conicals. I'm guessing that you will find conicals only marginal, at best. Sorry to say I sold my last 2 H&A tang sights. You may find one on ebay but will find them a little expensive when you do. If I remember correctly the hole is taped for a 1/4X28 thread. An inexpensive solution is to take a thumb screw with a 1/4X28 threaded shank, file the thumb turn smooth and drill a hole in the center. A jamb or lock nut will keep it where you want it, elevation wise. These are good shooting rifles.
Mark :thumbsup:

 

[gmww]

Congrats! Does your action have a wedge pin to remove the barrel or three set screws? The .45 I got with the three set screws has a RB twist of 1:60 I believe. At any rate, I would suggest you figure out the rate of twist with a cleaning rod and patch.

Determining the Rate of Twist.

As far as conicals. I've been able to shoot maxi-balls pretty accurately in my RB barrel.

 

[hanshi]

I've owned the H&A Heritage model for 45 years and love mine. They have a tight bore and Numrich Arms recommended a .433 ball but I always used a .440 ball with a .015 or thinner patch. These rifles are capable of astonishing accuracy.

Check to see if your barrel has gain twist rifling. This rifling starts off slow-around 1-70" and increase to (I think) 1-48" or faster at the muzzle. This along with the fine, deep rifling makes them a wonderful prb rifle. Don't waste your time with conicals. These guns are great deer rifles and bullseye punchers. You have great find; enjoy it.

 

[gmww]

Here are a couple in different butt stock configurations that I built.

 

[gmww]

Those lollipop sights are hard to come by. John Taylor made one for me and someone sold another to me. They do work rather well. The buffalo I took in February was with an H&A and a lollipop sight.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

If your .433 mold still casts a good ball you are all set, if not either Speer or Hornady makes swagged lead .433" balls. The standard twist in .45 caliber was 56" but as mentioned they also offered a gain twist at no additional charge. There will be a "G" stamped on the bottom flat. I don't recall if it was at the breech or at the muzzle.

 

[mr.flintlock]

An easy way to check a non-gain rate of twist is to insert a patched cleaning rod into the muzzle.Tape a standard business card to the top part of the cleaning rod. Push the rod down the bore and watch the card.When the card has spun 180 degrees stop and mark the rod at the muzzle. Withdraw the rod and measure distance from the cleaning jag to the mark on the rod and multiply by 2, and you will have the rate of twist.

 

[gmww]

An easy way to check a non-gain rate of twist is to insert a patched cleaning rod into the muzzle.Tape a standard business card to the top part of the cleaning rod. Push the rod down the bore and watch the card.When the card has spun 180 degrees stop and mark the rod at the muzzle. Withdraw the rod and measure distance from the cleaning jag to the mark on the rod and multiply by 2, and you will have the rate of twist.

Determining Rate of Twist.

 

[Snow on the Roof]

I had the opportunity to take this little rifle out to the range today. I learned a few things. Your percussion caps must fit perfectly or ignition is unreliable, if the cap goes off the gun goes off but the cap didn't always fire on the first try. Old, misfitting caps perhaps? Another thing, this is an accurate little gun. All my work was restricted to 25 yards but I was shooting 3" groups with my old eyes. A little work and some sort of reciever sight and this will become an regular in my arsenal! I found that .440 RB with .015 patching on top of 55 grn FFF worked very well. The combo was easy to load making me wonder if the .433 RB might be a bit small.
GMWW, I like how you switch barrels. Perhaps a smooth bore and a .62 barrel might be in my future. I presume you have both a different barrel and fore stock. You mentioned a John Taylor does he do this type of work? I would think barrels are easy but finding a breech plug would be an issue. This rifle has a pin at the breech would a screw be a superior setup? Particularly if one wants to switch back and forth with barrels.

 

[gmww]

Here is an action John made for me from brass. He used stock hammer, trigger and spring. He made the lollipop sight. I did the stock. John is a member here and does most of the work for my guns. I highly recommend him. Yes the set screw configuration makes it a breeze to change barrels. The nipple on your gun might be the problem. If it is too long, the hammer to cap strike might be off.

I have a .62 in smooth bore and rifled for my underhammers. I also have .45, .50 in RB and fast twist. I have one .54 that is also a fast twist.

 

Snow,
GMWW may have it right regarding the nipple, but make sure it isn't coned which would not let the cap be seated properly. If that is the case the hammer may be seating the cap on the first strike and then igniting it on the second strike. Changing barrels is a breeze and making a breach plug is not difficult. I have H&A's that are switch barrels, 20 g to .36, 12 ga trap gun and several offhand and chunk rifles. These are very forgiving, accurate and simple rifles. For custom work you won't beat John Taylor.
Mark

 

[Snow on the Roof]

GMWW,
Do you have a closer view of that sight? Ive a machinist friend who might be able to fabricate one if he had an example.
The nipple makes sense. I'll try a shorter square shoulder version.


JOhn

 

[gmww]

GMWW,
Do you have a closer view of that sight? Ive a machinist friend who might be able to fabricate one if he had an example.
The nipple makes sense. I'll try a shorter square shoulder version.


JOhn

 

[Snow on the Roof]

Excellent, thank you!