Horrible Shooting

[Twowithone]

Went to the range the other day it was bad.I got T.C. fiber optic sights on the Hawken. Well first three shots at 25 yds barely touched the bottom right hand corner. So I clicked it up 8 clicks shot 3 more down in the right hand again. Up 8 more clicks 3 shots same area maybe and thats a big maybe it raised it up about 3/4 of a inch.9 shots Im not impressed at all . Anybody have any insight to what I could be doing wrong. Bead is in the rear notch and all.Its move the sight the way you want your bullet to hit right.

 

[ohiosam]

Yes move the rear sight the direction you want the bullet to go (visa versa for the front sight)

Is this a rifle you had that shot ok and you just changed sights? Or is this rifle new to you?

Are you sure the rear sight isn't at it's limit for height? Maybe your front sight is too high.

 

[Twowithone]

Ive had the rifle ohiosam. Had the sight put on their fiber optics the eyes were going bad on me. I raised that rear sight 16 clicks total and it brought me up 3/4 of a inch. Moved the horizontal 8 clicks and it didnt do anything. Im quite amazed at the vertical clicks though for nothing to happen. I still have the target Ill try to post pics.These are T.C. sights I cant do anything with the front sight the rear sight goes up and left to right. I wasnt even close to the bullseye.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't know what sight you are using, but most scope sight adjustments are 4 "clicks" to the Inch at 100 yds! At 25 yds, - 1/4th the range-- the 4 clicks will only move your POI 1/4". 8 clicks will move it 1/2" , and so forth.

I would deal with the windage issue FIRST, to get those hits over in the center of the paper. THEN, I would worry about elevation. Move the rear sight( or scope) in the direction you want the ball or bullet to go.

If, instead, you are adjusting a front sight- out at the muzzle- then do the opposite to move the POI. That is, if your gun is hitting to the Right of the paper, then move the front sight Right to move the poi left!

I know this sounds odd, on first read, but when you look at what movement you are trying to do with your sights, it actually will make sense. :hatsoff:

 

[Twowithone]

Ill try that moving left to right first and hoping I have enough clicks left. Tried to download the target pics but couldnt do it. Computer is on last legs.The target looks good the shots are touching each other 3 touching 2 touching 2 stragglers but still low and a worm burner in there.

 

[StewartLeach]

Two:

Did you replace both front and rear sights with the fiber optics? Sight replacement usually works best when done as a system. BTW, I found the fiber optics I put on my old TC Renegade really improved my ability to hunt in the dark timber where the elk go hide after the first shots of the season.

When targeting a rifle (putting sights in general alignment) I find it best to work on one dimension at a time. I prefer to center the windage adjustment on the rear sight, then drift the front sight to get impacts centered on the target. After that, center up for elevation.

I don't have a very high opinion of the adjustments in the TC and similar rear sights as found on TC, Cabella's, and similar rifles. There is an awful lot of slop and lost travel due to loose thread and pin fits. You might try using a caliper to check to see if the windage and elevation screws actually move the blade. It is possible to deal with these problems by use of shims, tension springs and recutting the detent notches, but the time and tooling needed make it unreasonable. You might want to look into some sort of tang mounted peep sight.

White Fox

 

[plinker]

"You might try using a caliper to check to see if the windage and elevation screws actually move the blade."

While you are doing this see if the top of the front bead is the same height above the bore (top flat of the barrel) as the top of the rear sight. If they are, you should be hitting just below the point of aim at 25 yards. This is assuming that you are sighting such that the top of the bead is even with the top of the notch in the rear sight. If not, see what you will have to do to raise the rear sight until it is. The further adjustment to get it to hit where you want it to at 50, 75, or 100 yards will probably involve raising the rear sight even further.

 

[FRJ]

What rear sight are you using? If its a Lyman type target sight it will require a bunch of clicks to raise the impact point. If its another kind I'm not sure what they require. I would adjust my windage first and then adjust for elevation.What range are you doing this at? 25yards will not show as much movement as 100 yards. Please post more info. FRJ

 

[Twowithone]

Their T.C. fiber optic sights and I started out at 25 yds.

 

[Many Klatch]

I have a copy of this pasted inside the lid of all my shooting boxes. This may help.

Many Klatch

SIGHT ADJUSTMENT

To move bullet impact to the left, move rear sight to the left or front sight to the right.

To move bullet impact to the right, move rear sight to the right or front sight to the left.

To raise bullet impact, raise rear sight or lower front sight.

To lower bullet impact, lower rear sight or raise front sight.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I agree, if you are adjusting the sights, and NO change occurs..., maybe the rear sight adjustment screws are defective. It's possible. The other option is to have another person try the rifle as well. Have them start with the rear sight at its lowest elevation, with the screw all the way down, and have them try to adjust the impact. Like getting a second opinion from a doctor or a lawyer.

LD

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Since you changed the front sight I suspect the replacement is taller than the original, that would be the cause of shooting low. You may also not have gotten it centered quite the same as the original and that would be the cause of shooting right. I'd first drive the front sight to the right, which will move your point of impact to the left. At 25 yards it takes a fairly large movement of the sight to effect a noticeable movement of the point of impact. Start by measuring from the top of the barrel to the bottom of the front bead, then adjust the rear sight to have the same measurement from the top of the barrel to the bottom of the rear notch, assuming that is the way you align your sights and assuming the rear has enough adjustment, it may not have. You don't really need a precision measuring instrument to do that, you can just lay a business card up against the front sight, mark it, and transfer that to the rear sight.
Again assuming the bore is straight and centered (T/C's are not always so) getting the front and rear the same height above the barrel should put you close at 25 yards.

 

[Twowithone]

Was at the range yesterday not much improvement. Im trying the 6oclock hold method and at 25 yds Im still 6" short the sight isnt wound out all the way yet it will be on Sunday weather permitting. Still getting nice groups though.

 

[Richard J.]

We replaced a lot of TC sights with true glow. Replaced both sights and never had a problem. We put front sight even with both back so that you can see all three in a line. Hope this helps you. Have heard of other people that replaced only one and it caused them problems because the new site wasnt same height.

RJ

 

[ChrisHarris]

Went to the range the other day it was bad.I got T.C. fiber optic sights on the Hawken. Well first three shots at 25 yds barely touched the bottom right hand corner. So I clicked it up 8 clicks shot 3 more down in the right hand again. Up 8 more clicks 3 shots same area maybe and thats a big maybe it raised it up about 3/4 of a inch.9 shots Im not impressed at all . Anybody have any insight to what I could be doing wrong. Bead is in the rear notch and all.Its move the sight the way you want your bullet to hit right.

Is this off hand shooting or do you have it mounted in a lead sled or on a different bench support of some kind?

I know it's a stupid question and most would say, "Well obviously it's mounted on a sled or being rested on sand bags." But I still had to ask.

 

[n8dawg6]

I have 6 t/c's ... my experience with the ones I own are (1) sometimes they're just right (2) sometimes they have runout (barrel visibly is not drilled straight) and (3) sometimes the front sight is jammed in the dovetail from the factory and not centered.

to correct hitting too far to the right, see if the front sight is centered. if not, see if you can drift it in the dovetail to center.

if it's hitting really high the only solution is a taller front sight. i've got one with this issue and still haven't gotten around to fixing it. i'm PRETTY sure you can get an aftermarket taller front sight from a place like Track of the Wolf ... or at least you could when I was actually thinking about fixing mine.

two of the t/c's i own have noticeable runout. i've got the rear sights about maxed on them windage-wise. nevertheless, it works. they both shoot good groups.

 

[Twowithone]

This is shooting off sandbags.

 

[Twowithone]

Im about maxed out with the windage. The vertical can go a little more.

 

[Geraldo]

Another issue is how you're seeing the sights. I don't use fiber optic or colored sights, but I still noticed one day that I was shooting two distinct groups without changing sights or loads. The answer, part of the time it was incredibly bright and sunny, but every now and then clouds would go by and really cut the sunlight and the light under the covered bench area.

Fiber optic and colored inserts are supposed to be worse for changing light conditions.

 

[Greenjoytj]

Your sights are working perfectly. You moved the rear sight up a total of 16 clicks and got about 1 inch of vertical Point Of Impact change at 25 yards.
This proves your sight adjustments work and are working correctly for a sight that has 1/4" of POI movement per click at 100 yds.

If the new sights are physicaly the same height (measured with a vernier caliper ) as the old sights then there should be enough adjustment range to zero them the same as the old sights.
Remember to allow for the distance you are shooting at (25yds) and multiply times 4 the sight adjustment clicks required to get your desired POI change.