Horror story

[Rebel]

I suppose it Could happen, but then it could happen with anything you use to prime. Just have to try and be careful.

 

[xxgrampa]

hi-de-ho dilly,

what happened was; found myself playing around in the profiles section and somehow or ta other my age was 31 or 36. (forgot which) didn't know how to remove the age feature. but, did figgure out how to change my age. so... being an old goat with nothing better to do. changed my age from top to bottom :grin:

found that of all the ages i tried, liked my age the best..

as far as how old i am. been retired so long, got back all the money i paid into soc sec and probobly your money too and someone elses and someone elses. have no fear, spent your s. s. money on nice bp guns

thank you very much!! and ..ttfn..grampa..

 

[boar]

Thanks for reply. I have got all I paid in to SS. Been retried 12 yrs. I got out at 55. Its great. Dilly

 

[SainthoodDenied]

That was my thoughts, Since it was a misfire that didn't fire with a full prime charge then one ember could have been in the touch hole against the blockage. But also I've always used a pick to clean the hole before reprimimg to try and make sure next time I pull the trigger it goes as planned.

Chad

 

[Mad Professor]

Seems like for safety sake a pick with a 90 degree bend would allow cleaning the touch hole without exposing your hand to the path of a potential flash. Anyone use a bent pick?

 

[arquebus]

I think he may have been referring to an incident that happened at the MLAIC World Championships in Australia back in 2000. A member of the British team was repriming his matchlock musket after a couple of flash-in-the-pans when the priming flask blew up. I didn't witness the accident, but I got to the firing line ready for the next relay & there was a LOT of blood. The main cause for the extent of his injuries was that the flask was metallic & had a screw-on base which allowed for the pressure to build bursting the flask. The concensus now is to use a flask (metallic or not) with a friction fit base so the pressure would be quickly relieved. I use one of the plastic priming 'horns' that look like ivory which has a push-fit base. I know some people have replaced the screw-on bases on their brass flasks with a cork stopper.

 

[colmoultrie]

He may very well have been referring to the incident you mention, because I believe he was there. I just mentioned it because my powder trickler/pan primer was indeed a screw-bottom design.

I think you're right in that a friction fitted base, a nearly empty (and very small) horn or a plastic bottle wouldn't allow the pressure to build up nearly as much before it burst.

As I said in my original post, I wasn't there. I just wanted to let people know about what sounded to me like a plausible danger after a flash in the pan.

If anyone wants to think the poor guy was smoking, feel free to disregard the story. I'll just stand off to your left, please, if we're on the same line. :surrender:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I think this incident proves the wisdom of cleaning between shot, with a damp cleaning patch to put out embers in the bottom of the barrel. You also need to wipe out the flash pan, and the bottom of the frizzen, the barrel, and the flint to remove powder debris that can catch and hold an ember. If you have a " Flash in the pan ", you nedd to wipe the pan out before putting more powder into the pan to try again. And, to be extra careful, you should put your vent pick into the touch hole, while repriming the pan around it. That will prevent any hangfire in the barrel from setting of your priming powder, and lighting up your flask or horn full of priming powder.

I have primed flash pans thousands of time, following this routine, and never have had even a close chance for an unexpected ignition of powder from amything. Certainly, any time you pick up a powder horn, or can, or flask, you are holding onto a bomb, and you need to be extremely cautious to avoid any heat or flame getting into it.

There is no reason to be cutting safety corners at a target match. Priming time is not going to decide if you fire all your shots within the relay time, or not. And, so what if you don't finish a target in a timed relay in time? Its not like it hasn't happened to most experienced shooters before. :hmm: :grin:

 

[roundball]

"...If anyone wants to think the poor guy was smoking, feel free to disregard the story..."

:grin: I think I made the point pretty clearly that I wasn't challenging you for what you posted. I then went on to make a generic statement to the effect that I was shocked at so many of these stories that just seemed so incredulous to me.

After a second guy commented that he'd seen it too, I was pretty clear then about accepting that the event evidently happened to people, so if you're reading anything into my post on a personal basis you're mistaken.


To the issue, my puzzlement is that I don't understand the "how"...maybe these things happen all over and I'm just lucky that with my particular rifles, and maybe my lube, my Goex, my cleaning regimen, shooting in North Carolina weather, etc, etc, etc, gives me a sheltered view of other people's shooting environments and dangers...dunno.

What I do know is that after about 10,000 shots I've never seen anything remaining in the pan/breech-wall vent area that was burning or could/would burn/continue to burn after a flash-in-the-pan...never.

Maybe it's just as simple as my cleaning & shooting regimen...I shoot a 50 shot range session every weekend, I religiously take a few minutes about every 15-16 shots (twice during a range session) and clean the frizzen, flint, pan, touch hole, etc, using alcohol on a cloth, Q-tips & pipe cleaners...I do it primarily to ensure clean ignition and avoid a ker-latch, but a side benefit is that nothing is ever allowed to build up in that area at all.

Based upon the explosions referenced with these unfortunate shooters, the supposition was that so much crud was allowed to build up in that area that there was enough combustible residue to catch fire and burn after a flash-in-the-pan.

Since I've never allowed anything to get that cruddy on my rifles under any circumstances, I've never had that happen. Maybe I need to get around to clubs where lots of people shoot and watch them closely, gauge their cleaning & shooting regimens...might put all this in a different perspective for me because otherwise, I'm just always amazed when I hear stories like this...nothing to compare it to.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

There are lots of things which sometimes happen that cannot be explained nor reproduced, like say chainfires in properly loaded revolvers. I've never seen it happen and don't see how it could but I still won't put a hand ahead of the cylinder.

 

[jdixon]

This thread has been interesting, never have thought of this one - I can see where it could happen. I use one of those cow horn tips with the 3 grain plung dispenser, guess that would be a little hand grenade if it went off.

In the same vain, there is an interesting piece in Muzzleblasts this month on accidential discharges in flintlocks, this one during the loading process. They were remarking that the flint leather sometimes can retain a significant spark, even smolder if it is exposed to the vent jet during firing. When reloading, especially for those who have opened up the vent hole some, a small amount of the main charge trickles out into the pan, comes into contact with the embers on the leather and off she will go. I use leather, soaked it in Ballistol, it gets charred but, I have never seen it burning. Another that could happen, wouldn't with a lead wrap though, something to think about.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have experienced a chain fire, and figured out how it was occuring. I sold the gun for parts, only, making sure I told the dealer why I was selling the gun.

I am with Round Ball on this. I take care of my rifle to such an extent, I don't really understand how something like this could be allowed to happen. I too need to spend more time going to different clubs, and shoots and just watching how other shooters treat their guns, and how they clean them, or don't clean them during a series of shots. Having said that, I have seen some old guns for sale at farm auctions, and estate sales, that have been abused and neglected for many years, mostly by not cleaning them. I was once asked to examine a percussion shotgun that was in issue in a divorce settlement, for another lawyer, and the crud was built up around the nipple so deep you could hardly get the hammer to touch the top of the nipple. I took my penknife to it, and it came off in chunks. I have no idea how long you would have to neglect a percussion gun to have that much build up, but I saw it with my own eyes.

 

[colmoultrie]

Wasn't challenging you, Roundball. I was speaking more generally. Some people - again, speaking in gross generalizations - will disregard any report they haven't witnessed themselves. Others will overreact.

 

[colmoultrie]

Maybe it's just as simple as my cleaning & shooting regimen...I shoot a 50 shot range session every weekend, I religiously take a few minutes about every 15-16 shots (twice during a range session) and clean the frizzen, flint, pan, touch hole, etc, using alcohol on a cloth, Q-tips & pipe cleaners...I do it primarily to ensure clean ignition and avoid a ker-latch, but a side benefit is that nothing is ever allowed to build up in that area at all.

Wow, after re-reading that post, I'm jealous! I just got out last weekend to go shooting for the 2nd time in 2 months, and that was above average! I plan to do more once summer hits, but I have a two-year old, and when I'm off for the summer, I'm primary daycare while Mom works. It certainly has its rewards :grin: , but shooting time isn't one of them.
:hatsoff:

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Well I tell you ... I learned something from this post. Talking with my BP friends last night who are computer-less ( :surrender: ) we all agreed that when the nexttime we ever get a 'flash in the pan', we'll put the new priming charge into our std powder measures and pour it from there.

Makes sense and will quickly become a good 2nd habit, no?

 

[Halftail]

There are lots of things which sometimes happen that cannot be explained nor reproduced, like say chainfires in properly loaded revolvers. I've never seen it happen and don't see how it could but I still won't put a hand ahead of the cylinder.

I guess the old adage..."Expect the unexpected" certainly would apply when shooting Black Powder.
It certainly applies to my life in general lately.
:v

 

[roundball]

:hmm: Sooner or later somebody will invent something that'll eliminate all these worries...might be called a cartridge or something...it'll contain all the powder, priming, and bullet in a single reuseable waterproof case that you can just drop in your pocket... :hmm:

 

[biliff]

A member of the British team was repriming his matchlock musket after a couple of flash-in-the-pans when the priming flask blew up.

I have absolutely no experience with matchlocks or competitive shooting with them, hence my question. What is considered the "safe" way to load and prime one of these things. Do you pull and/or extinguish the match after every shot??

 

[arquebus]

Roundball, If they do ever come up with such a thing, take my word for it, it'll only be a passing fad!!

 

[arquebus]

BB, With matchlocks in MLAIC competition the rules require that the match is removed after each shot & the smoldering end is placed in a container during the reloading process, it is only replaced in the serpentine when the gun is ready to be fired again. The match container I use is a Musket Cap tin with a hole in the lid for the match & a series of holes around the outside to allow air circulation so the match won't extinguish. Other folks I've seen just use a similarly vented pop can.