Houston, we have a problem...

[JamesA]

Finally got out to the range yesterday. Fired a few rounds. My biggest problem now is the fouling caused by using real black powder. After the third shot, if I don't swab the barrel, it takes a feat of strength to get the patched ball down the barrel. I am shooting 75 gr. of FFFG Schuetzen black powder, .490 round ball (Hornady), and a .010 pre lubed patch, winchester magnum percussion cap. Is this too much powder, not enough, what? The first round slides in like it's on greased rails. The second shot, requires a bit of effort. The third round requires some force. After that, forgetaboutit.

The rifle is a Pedersoli Traditional Hawken Target Rifle, .50 caliber. When I first started shooting it, all that was available was pyrodex. I have tried RS, P, and Select. I didn't have much problem with fouling. After finding a couple pounds of Schuetzen FFFG, that's all I have been using. I like the accuracy I get with Schuetzen but the fouling makes it a S.O.B. to shoot without "swabbing" way too often at the range while shooting and takes forever to remove the fouling from the barrel when cleaning it. I clean the rifle after every trip to the range and upon observation, there is no rust in the barrel. I am kind of at a loss. I could try a thinner patch maybe but I don't want the ball bouncing down the barrel. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[deerstalkert]

What is your patch lubed with?

 

[Jaeger]

Three shots are not many for needing to swab the bore, and your pre-lubed patches might be aggravating the situation. I would try using so-called spit patches. Use your own saliva to wet a clean, dry patch right before loading, and I don't mean dripping wet. When I switched to spit patches, my fouling decreased markedly. You will still need to swab the bore after 5 to 7 shots. Since you are target shooting, I'm surprised you are not cleaning after every shot

 

[TreeMan]

Use more lube or swab between shots.

 

[Nobade]

Yep, pre lubed patches are usually a problem. Spit or something like Ballistol/water mix works a lot better. Each time you load should be cleaning the bore.

 

[waksupi]

Another vote for the pre-lubed patches being the culprit.

 

[ord sgt]

The prelubed patches are usually pretty dry. I use Ox Yoke prelubed patches. Before I use them, I will add some extra lube to the patches. Used with Goex FFFg powder, I can get quite a few shots before having to wipe the bore. Different humidity levels also complicate the loading process.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I soak my patches in Number 13 T/C cleaner.
In decades I have never had a swab the barrel.

 

[user 48679]

If it's a new gun, the bore might need a bit of lapping to smooth out the rifling.

 

[rafterob]

My experience with Schuetzen has been that it creates a drier or stickier fouling. When I was using grease lubed patches I would have to swab after about 5 shots. I switched to using a little Dawn detergent in water as a lube. That is like swabbing everytime you load and takes care of that issue.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I like to use a barely damp patch for accuracy on target. A patch with only a bit of lubricant won't remove enough of the fouling, so a wipe with a damp patch is needed. To be able to shoot many times without wiping, on target accuracy expectations may have to be lowered. The substitute powders don't create a lot of the sooty fouling. They create other types of fouling that lead to excessive rusting of the bore unless the firearm is very thoroughly cleaned and lubricated with a rust inhibiting oil.

I'm not a big fan of multiple shots without wiping and I am not a fan of using very wet patching when loading a patched ball. But others that shoot multiple shots without wiping find the wet patch just what they want. @B P Maniac Shooter uses a liberal dose of Mr. Flintlock lubricant on his 0.015" ticking and a 0.480 ball for easy loading.

To get a lot of shots without wiping between shots, you might want to use a thicker patch and the 0.490 ball. The thin 0.010" prelubed patch isn't going to prevent gas blow by as the round is fired which means more fouling in the grooves. You will benefit from a thicker patch and use a lot of lubricant which will wipe up the fouling. A patch of 0.015 to 0.200 and a lubricant such as one part Ballistol and up to seven parts water to thoroughly dampen the patch almost to dripping will wipe the fouling from the grooves as the ball and patch is loaded. You will get a better seal as the charge is fired which means the powder is more efficiently burned up. Fouling will be minimized. You can't eliminate fouling from black powder, but it can be better controlled. You might find a 0.485" ball and very wet 0.024" patch is the load that will allow you to get many rounds off without wiping every couple of shots.

 

[akroguy]

My Pedersoli Kentucky .50 is miserable to load a .490 and ticking patch. A .485 with .015" ox yoke loads easy and is plenty accurate enough for plinking and easy loading. Oh and coning the muzzle really helped too!

 

[BillKilgore]

I had the same problem with my colonial longrifle. Fouling has been greatly reduced by:

• Swabbing between shots with a little Windex on a patch;
  • Caution, make sure the barrel is thoroughly dry before loading the next round. Ask me how I learned this;
• Using TOTW mink oil patch lube; and
• Using .018 pillow ticking rather than a pre-lubed .010 patch.

Do your patches have black streaks like this radiating out to the edge on the powder side? I got significant blow by with the .010 patch. I use Hornady .495 lead balls in a 50 cal rifle.

 

[hanshi]

I agree that a thicker patch will keep the bore cleaner than using a thin patch. Just smooth the muzzle crown with thumb & sandpaper; Patches are generally torn by the sharp crown rather than the rifling. I like well lubed patches because any excess lube is squeezed out and left on the muzzle. I patch with .024" canvas and lube with either Hoppes BP Lube or TOW mink oil. I don't ever swab until shooting is all done.

 

[maillemaker]

Sadly I had similar experience with Shuetzen powder. On the NSSA forum the consensus seems to be that it performs adequately in cartridges but is dirty in muzzle loaders. I found with a Wilkinson style of bullet I could only get off about 3 shots before the bore got crunchy. With Goex I can shoot indefinitely. Of course we won’t see Goex for a year probably. You might try Swiss if you can get it.

 

[bang]

I make lube from about 75% candle wax and veggie oil cooked together. I find it makes fouling softer and easier to deal with. I also use it for over ball in revolver. Get same results, softer fouling.

 

[tenngun]

And where are you at
Humid conditions make a lot more fouling

 

[JamesA]

What is your patch lubed with?

I'm not sure. I bought them at Cabela's.

 

[JamesA]

So many suggestions, thank you all. I have a lot of things to try.

When I bought the Hawken, along with not being able to find real black powder, #11 percussion caps were not available. I bought some CCI Musket caps, got the correct nipple and started shooting that way. I measured the lands and grooves of the barrel, Grooves, .510" and the lands .501". Does that sound right? All that was available was .495 dia. round balls so I found some material that was .005" thick and shot that way. Little to no fouling then.

When .490 dia. round balls became available, I switched over to using them and the .010 patch. One thing I have noticed about the patches, they come out shredded, even with the thin patch.

With my old CVA .45 cal Kentucky, I just used pillow/mattress ticking, I have no idea how thick it was. I don't remember the exact diameter of the ball but .440 dia. rings a bell. The patches always looked good, like the ones BillKilgore pictured.

I hope this makes sense, I'm not sure if it's important or not. Anyway, thanks again for all the suggestions.

 

[JamesA]

And where are you at
Humid conditions make a lot more fouling

Meridian, Idaho. We are actually classed as high desert here.