How accurate can patched round ball be?

[hanshi]

The best I've ever been able to do at 100 yards while standing on my hind legs like a human, and leaning against a post, was 3.75" for 5 shots. I've done this with a couple of flintlocks, .40 & .45. Even off a bench I'm hard pressed to beat that. For me it's basically an average of 4" (+ or -) for 5 shots at 100. Up to 60 yds I've managed around an inch several times from hunting positions.

As for 1" at 100 yards with prb, I know of it being done on several occasions; so it's not just "possible" but likely given all the right circumstances. I can't do it, never have done it and never will be able to do it.

 

[bpd303]

Thanks for the reply guys. I’m used to shooting cartridge rifles so I’m getting a feel for what muzzle loaders are capable of.

I have never shot at a target at that range. But can consistently break clay birds on the 100 yard line embankment with one of my rifles. Standing using a pole as a steady rest, it's not purdy but a good shooter.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/my-quasi-target-rifle….89636/

 

[Spikebuck]

Is it possible to have a patched round ball rifle shoot 1" groups at 100 yards?

There are really no qualifiers in the question other than it's a patched round ball rifle (assumption a PRB is the projectile). The question doesn't ask about bench, no bench, gun in a vise, on sand bags, etc. Doesn't mention percussion or flint. Doesn't even mention the sighting system, so I assume that optics might be allowed, such as a traditional Malcolm style on a Hawken type rifle?

So I would say that with lots of control around the quality and consistency of the round ball, the patch, the lube and application, charge weighed (not by a normal volume measure) and very consistent loading technique and then shot by someone with very good eyesight and shooting capability so the best of the gun's potential comes forth....yes, it is possible.

For most of us, is it probable with a normal gun, sights, and load and done consistently with aging eyes? No.

 

[tenngun]

It’s tougher with traditional sites. Traditional can be modified to be clearer, but still pretty poor. At long range (100 yards) I find a six o’clock holde easier, but my eyes ain’t what they were, and I shoot mostly at fifty yards. A center of mass is easier.

 

[Bent Sight]

My T/C Renegade with a 1:66 barrel has fired quite a few 10 shot 100 yard groups hovering in the 3-1/2" range without sorting balls by weight or taking any special steps when cutting patches and measuring charges. Usually several shots go into a 2" group, then a few flyers open up a 10 shot group to 3-1/2".

If a person was meticulous, I could see them shooting 1" groups with the right barrel, ball, powder and patch.

 

[chix2111]

I was a member of the Kingston Muzzleloaders club in Washington state back around '70. We challenged the USMC detachment at the Bangor Nuclear Submarine Base to a shooting match. As I remember, we shot 50 and 100 yards. They were allowed any rifle, but no scopes, and we brought our assortment of flints and percussion, round ball of course. I shot my Green River Rifle Works Leman trade rifle. It was a glorious day and we sent them back to the base with their tail between their legs draggin their M16's and whatever by the barrel. I think a guy named Bob Gordon shot best in the match as he usually did.
We were accuracy nuts and 2" 100 yard groups were not at all uncommon off a bench.

 

[Mjenks1976$]

Is it possible to have a patched round ball rifle shoot 1" groups at 100 yards?

Maybe at 35yrds 2” at 100, is the best ive seen w a ball

 

[Newtire]

I could do that easy on a calm day with a new keyboard on my computer...

 

[LME]

From cross sticks, I was 29 and my right eye was 20/15. No grey in my beard.
Math, well that’s a problem as I intended three shots for a group, but it’s the best group I ever remember.View attachment 49139

I think your target represents just about the best one can expect. I have pushed a lot of lead down the barrel of my rifles and your target look very familiar to me! My 22-250 will keep a dime size hole but not my front stuffer?

 

[Loonhaven]

Waaaay back to the Fall Shoot
at Friendship, August of 1980, I entered the 25 yd Off-hand Flintlock match. The rifle was a Tennessee Poorboy style that I built a few weeks prior. It had a .36 cal Douglas barrel, open iron sights and a Siler lock. The trigger was pinned by a 4 penny finishing nail. I came home with the Bronze medal after putting all five shots in the X ring. I guess what I'm saying is that with quality parts, a good eye and a lot of luck anything is possible.

 

[Art Caputo]

Being predominately a hunter, my accuracy(and sight-in) measurements are three shots with no swabbing from a bench rest. I’m more interested in testing the rifles capability, and try to take “me” out of the equation as much as possible. This is the same standard that I use with my much longer range “un-mentionables”, While 2-3” at 100 yards using this standard can be achieved with a few of my rifles at 100 yards, I believe the PRB is capable of delivering 1” at 100 yards with an optimum load/sight picture, and a dead wind. A 50-58 caliber PRB can drift one inch/1MPH at 100 yards. Vertical dispersions are present depending on wind direction and speed. To reduce these effects, most of my accuracy testing is done at 50 yards. I recently built a 58 cal Kibler Colonial that was producing exceptional accuracy at 50 yards and decided to try 100 yards since the wind had gone completely dead, and lighting was perfect just prior to an incoming thunder storm. I only shot this one 100 yard group, as the sky opened up in a downpour, and we called it a day. I doubt I could repeat it on demand. I also have a Jack Hubbard 50 cal that printed a 1” 3 three shot group on steel plates at 100 yards a couple of years ago. Both rifles will do this constantly at 50 yards. Typically in a good conditions, 2-3 inches at 100 yards is more the norm with these rifles. Most of this is academic since most all of my hunting shots are larger targets at closer ranges. .
Shown; wind effects, Kibler 100 yards, Hubbard 50 yards.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have a friend, some of you may know him, Bruce McKelvy, he can shoot sub 2" groups offhand with percussion at 100 yards on a regular basis. Another is Bill Millican, he can do the same with a flintlock. I have seen these guys targets from competition.

Then there is the late Tip Curtis, he had a what I think was a 100 yard smoothbore target in his shop that he shot in competition that has a group about the size of a silver dollar on it. I know it was a smoothbore target and pretty sure it was 100 yards but not completely.

 

[dave951]

With modern iron sights from a bench, 1moa groups are absolutely possible with PRB in a quality rifle with good components and technique.

 

[kelljp]

If they ever have rendezvous or Black powder events again (such as Friendship) go to one and watch the competition shoots. In some groups with smoothbores it's not uncommon to have to shoot a playing card in two side ways or shoot the string holding the target. Theses people shoot every day.

 

[Howard Pippin]

The best I've ever been able to do at 100 yards while standing on my hind legs like a human, and leaning against a post, was 3.75" for 5 shots. I've done this with a couple of flintlocks, .40 & .45. Even off a bench I'm hard pressed to beat that. For me it's basically an average of 4" (+ or -) for 5 shots at 100. Up to 60 yds I've managed around an inch several times from hunting positions.

As for 1" at 100 yards with prb, I know of it being done on several occasions; so it's not just "possible" but likely given all the right circumstances. I can't do it, never have done it and never will be able to do it.

I have shot some really good groups, but they were only one shot. As soon as I opened it up To many bullet holes it had a tendency to spread.
Squint

 

[Professor flintlock]

I have shot some really good groups, but they were only one shot. As soon as I opened it up To many bullet holes it had a tendency to spread.
Squint

Back in the late 90's or so Green Mountain had an advertisement showing the national champ with a 100 yard target offhand think it was a 50 and 4 or five X's. Forget the guys name but he was an eagle eyed smooth shooter. Can probably find the spec's in NMLRA national records.

 

[Crow-Feather]

I believe that a bp rifle barrel can shoot a 1' group at 100 yards. With the addition of the stock, iron sights, reloading variances, the best I have ever done was 2.5".

 

[oldhunter1954]

I am 66 years old and I can not reliably see the bulls eye at 100 yards without optics. Am I the only one?

 

[riverratNEW]

Thanks for the reply guys. I’m used to shooting cartridge rifles so I’m getting a feel for what muzzle loaders are capable of.

I just competed in the California State Muzzle Loading Championship in the "TraditionalClass", using a TC Hawken stock with a Sharon barrel in .50 cal., .490 balls and 60 gr of 2f I was fortunate to place second in class. Not bad for 77 years old ! We shot at 25 , 50 and 100 yards. The two longer distances were both bench and off hand in a slight cross wind. Traditional open sights just like the old days. With this combo, I held very slightly left because of the wind, and a couple of inches high. At 100 yards offhand, I was able to hit the black three of 5 shots. No better on the bench. ( I blame the wind ) Either way, roundball can be fairly accurate with practice.

 

[TNGhost]

Best I ever did was 3", off hand.

3" offhand, at 100 yards is extremely excellent good shooting, many modern mass produced rifles are not capable of doing that from a machine rest.

The practical reality though, is that most longer range hunting shots and even most competition shooting at long range, is done from a rested position, which makes a tremendous difference in practical accuracy. So your 3" could easily translate to 1" or Minute Of Angle (MOA) for the rifle you were using. Excellent in and of itself.