How common were guns in Europe?

[spudnut]

kirrmiester,
I know you reenact the American war for Inependence,And Ive seen pictures of western Rondy's there too.But does anyone reenact commom German people/shooter in the 18th century like we're talking about? just wondering.I'd like to see pictures of that...Mark

 

[bucktales]

The inlays in the third photo....do you know what this work was on and the time frame when it was created? I would really like to know the date! I strongly suspect that this originates in Northern Germany in the time period 1730 to 1780. Can you tell me anything about it? It speaks volumes :hmm: !

I don't know the specifics of this piece as I was overwhelmed by the info I was taking in at Coburg. I do believe it is the top piece in the next photo. Apologies for poor quality photo.

 

[PreglerD]

The 18 th century is not very common in GE. We have only military reenacters who do the Hessian and Prussian Army of this time and Ansbach-Bayreuth troops. But I don't know any groups who reenact for example Bavarian Troops of this time. It would be interesting.

 

[hawkeye1755]

Ignoring the Swiss, how common were firearms to the non-aristocratic and non-military masses? Please cite your authority. Thanks!

I'm a member of the 'St.Nikolai Schützengilde 1586'.
The oldest Schützengilde(marksman's guilds) in Germay is the 'Hersfelder Schützengilde 1252'.First they used crossbows and later Matchlocks,Wheellocks and Flintlocks.
Search the web for Schützengilde.
:hatsoff:

 

[RedFeather]

I guess some "poor" guys owned these.

You can tell they were poor, they're naked! :haha:

 

[Wehrmacht]

Undertaker and Kirrmeister....

Please look at the photo that Bucktale posted showing the pieces in the display case...can either of you date these pieces? Have any idea where in Deutschland these originated? Have any thoughts or comments about the inlays shown in Bucktales original photo posted above? This is very intreiguing to me, and I have my reasons,so any thing that you might comment on will be greatly appreciated!!

 

[hawkeye1755]

Rich , sorry to say, but i was never in Coburg.Kirrmeister? :hmm:
But you can look at the website from Hermann Historica in Munich.There you can see a lot of those old guns like this one.

Look at Pre-Flintlock at the forum

Link
I know that you can read a little German, so it's not to difficult for you.
:hatsoff:

 

[Stophel]

17th century wheellock rifles can be MUCH more difficult (if not totally impossible) to put a location to than are 18th century flintlock guns (which can also be a very difficult task...). The Adam and Eve gun looks like a typical mid-17th century German rifle (very high-grade, of course). Could be from anywhere.

Now, there ARE plain wheel lock rifles. Apparently quite a few. They just don't get illustrated in books, or displayed in museums. I have an auction catalog that some of you might have too. It's a nice hardbound Christie's catalog from 1992 "the Armoury of Their Serene Highnesses the Princes zu Salm-Reifferscheidt-Dyck (part II)". In it, there are quite a few very plain, "ordinary grade" rifles.

 

[PreglerD]

So I was at the "Feste Coburg" means castle of Coburg, but that was in the 1980. Perhaps i can ask there. would take a bit of time, but I will do it for you forster. Give me a message.

 

[Wehrmacht]

Thanks Andreas and Chris for your comments. I'm off to Pall Mall,Tennessee later tonight to compete in the annual[url] Sgt.Alvin[/url] York Memorial Over The Log Rifle Match this Saturday, so I don't have very much time right now to persue this very interesting Subject.

But here's what has tweeked my interest in this whole thing! The pannel (made of ivory I assume?) will immediately catch the eye of any Freemason who has studied Masonic symbolism. In fact,it jumps out at you,and it's almost impossible to miss it. The primary symbolism is centered, and is bracketed by the Sun and the Moon which are displayed in the custom dating to the Middle Ages at least. Directly centered between the Sun and the Moon, is the figure of the man on the left handing the woman on the right a POMEGRANET. The Brazen Serpent,intertwined around the tree, is watching.This goes far,far into antiquity. There are other things displayed which denote advanced degrees/knowledge/wisdom within the Scottish Rite and its Deutsch counterpart. The two had very close ties.

It is a safe bet to say that this piece was either built by a Deutsch Freemason, or built for one, or possibly (I would almost think probably) both the builder and the owner were Brothers of the Order.

Edit: Thanks,Kirrmeister. I will be in contact with you after the rifle match. I will add that the position of the feet of both the man "giving" and the woman "receiving" are very significant.

 

[bucktales]

And if you want to wait a bit longer, I'm planning another Bayern visit next year. :thumbsup:

 

[romeoh]

So I was at the "Feste Coburg" means castle of Coburg,

I have to make a small correction.
The right expression is "Veste Coburg".
I´m not sure about the correct english word - fortress or stronghold maybe.

The people in Coburg are very proud about the "V"-writing because that means the fortress was never conquered.
If it would ever have been conquered then it would be written with "F"
I learned that while being there during my first year of duty in the german federal police.

Greetings

romeoh

 

I don't think it's a freemason thing but the story of Adam and Eve from the bible. Left, you see god creating a women out of Adam's rib, in the middle Eve gives Adam a forbitten apple from the tree, watched by the snake (the devil), and at the right, archangel Michael throws them out of paradise. The sun and the moon might symbolize that they are going from paradise (light) to the world (darkness).

Just my guess.

 

[Stophel]

It's simply the story of Adam and Eve and God casting them out of the Garden of Eden. Nothing masonic in it, besides, freemasonry didn't even exist prior to about 1716. :winking:

 

[Bartek]

During the late 1500's firearms were came into fashion among the lower class people in East-Central Europe,because of almost everyday armed conflicts(Turcoman Occupation).They used mainly carbines,arquebuses and pistols with matchlock and wheellock until the mid 18th.century.By that time every citizen carried a pistol of some sort for self defense.Hunting guns with wheellock was also common.The flintlock was a major locktype until 1880's (!)Only those guns for military use fitted with modern (Augustin Tube lock,caplock)locks.The first common breechloaders came in to civilian use in the late 19th.century.Citizens of larger towns and cities had their own shooting clubs (aristocracy only)
Cheers
WB :hatsoff:

First case of killing someone with firearm in Poland took place in 1386. In 1380/90 council of Cracow has forbiden to carry gonnes in the town. Because of large number duells. In my town first shooting club was founded in 1228. They used crossbows in the beginning, since XIV gonnes.
XVII century is called in Poland "Iron Century". Poland had hard long wars agains Tartars, Russia, Turkey, Sweden and Cossacks. So - almost everybody carried firearms.
The end of XVIII and all XIX century was the period of 6 bloody risings against occupants. Were firearms common ? - no comment
On the field of hunting - capslock shotgun from Liege in Belgium was traditional first gift of a father for his son in middle class families. Nobels used to carry Adams and LaFouche revolvers.

pozdrawiam :hatsoff:

 

[WabishMukwa]

It is true.The wheellocks in great numbers were bounty from the enemy turcs and germans.They used these mainly for hunting and self defense.

 

[WabishMukwa]

No czescz Bartek!
Jak sze masz?
I was was reading your "history lesson" with great interest.Would you specify that what locktypes were common in the era of the "Ogniem i Mieszciem"?
Zdrovie! WB ( wenger) :hatsoff:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Sometime around 1890 a King in a European country ( think it was Montenegro? or near there, maybe Armenia/Romania?) declared that every adult male be armed with a pistol prefrably one made by a firm that the King had interest in. this was due to civil unrest and hostility from neighboring countrys. I read this (fotos also) in either Gun list or Gun digest about 2 years back, very interesting unforunately my spring cleaning about a month back put the magazine in the round file, a mistake I realize now. The revolver the King had interest in was a truly large pistol and as powerful as the Walker but was a cartridge gun. Double-action also. The cartridge was largest of it's sort. Many men carried a pair of them. I wish now I had saved that article to post here :cursing: . those pistols are now highly prized collectibles. Maybe one of our European friends can help me out here with some details.

 

[WabishMukwa]

Its probably a russian Nagant revolver.Thats a huge gun more like a pocket cannon. :rotf:

 

[2172]

Freemasonry was organized in London in about 1716, but existed long before. There are existing records of a lodge meeting in Scotland in about 1405 or so...the operative masons (the working bricklayers) were admitting a couple of
'speculative" masons, i.e. non bricklayers who wanted the membership for benefits...right to travel, et c.
Hank