How do these patches look?

[Diggerfly]

Hi all,

I got out for some range fun yesterday. I was shooting a .50 cal Kentucky rifle using a .49 ball over 65 grains of Goex FFF. I've been messing around with patch thickness a bit. I like using a .01 patch for loading ease. If I use a .015 patch I have to pretty much clean the barrel after every shot to be able to load the next.

Just not sure if a .01 patch is thick enough for good results. How do they look to you?

Here my target at 100 yards. I've realized making a good group at 100 yards is beyond my aiming ability with open sights. I was just happy to actually hit near the center.

 

[roundball]

Those patches are failing...if they were mine I'd immediately go to a thicker patch.

Speaking for myself, I've never found any use for thin patches like .005" and .010" other than when doing load development to "add" them to other patches to experiment with different thicknesses.

I'll occasionally use a light .015" patch for just fun plinking at steel targets if I've run across a dirt cheap sale on them, but my main bread & butter patches are .018" and .022" across .40/.45/.50/.54/.58/.62cals

 

[Diggerfly]

Roundball are those patches really hard to load in you rifles? As in having to hit the starter hard with your hand a few time to get it going and then use both hands on the rod to get it down?

My main problem/ issue is having to really clean(not just wipe) the barrel after each shot in order to load a ball with a .015 patch.

 

[BrownBear]

I agree that the patches are hosed. It makes me wonder seriously if your 100 yard target is more the result of patch failure than aiming failure. Here's a question for you: How difficult is it to ram the ball down the bore after starting? If it's real easy that points to crown issues rather than too thick of a patch.

As for difficulty in seating, what lube are you using? I find that some are lots easier to load than others. With the right lube even a "tight" patch only requires that I push hard on the short starter. Most times I've had to slap or pound on a short starter it was result of a really sharp crown on the barrel.

That makes me wonder what make of barrel you're using. Some new bores are pretty rough and require a hundred or so shots to smooth up a bit and ease loading. A .490 ball should start pretty easily with .015 and even a .018 with increased effort.

 

[longcruise]

My main problem/ issue is having to really clean(not just wipe) the barrel after each shot in order to load a ball with a .015 patch.

Roundball is right on in his assessment of your patches and his observations on patch choice.

It's not unusual to have to wipe after each shot when using a grease type lube. Those patches look like store-bought prelubed patches.

I'm curious as to the make and model of your rifle, especially the maker of the barrel. Some of the entry level rifles have some pretty rough bores and need some smoothing to make em shoot. A rough barrel will make loading difficult and will hold more fouling after the shot than a smoother barrel.

I'm going to suggest that before you do any more experimenting that you take some measures to lap your bore and smooth the crown of your rifle. This link is how I do it; Barrel conditioning You can also just shoot the barrel in. Might take 300 to 500 shots to get there though. :shocked2: If you plan to shoot 150 to 200 shots per month, then it's a good option. OTOH, if you shoot only a few shots per month you could spend a couple years shooting it in.

There are other ways to condition your bore as well and I'm sure you will get additional suggestions on that!

Once you have conditioned your bore, then you can proceed to playing with lubes and patch thickness.

If you don't like wiping between shots, (I sure don't ) then use a liquid type lube such as dish soap and water at 1:10, Hoppes solvent/lube, spit or any of the other concoctions that are out there.

I think you will see that 100 yard target improve when you get your gun settled in! :thumbsup:

 

[Diggerfly]

Thanks for the input BrownBear.

I have to slap the starter pretty hard a few times to get it going then it takes a good amount of force with the range rod to get the ball down, and that's with a clean barrel. Forget it if its dirty.

As far as lube goes, I'm real basic with my BP shooting at this point being a newbe. I just buy pre lubed patches and use those. Perhaps that is the issue with loading a .015 patch and up... :idunno:

The rifle is a Pedersoli and has less then a 100 shots though it too.

 

[Trench]

Deffinitely try some different lubes. I buy dry patching and lube it myself. I started with Bore Butter, but I've moved on to Track of the Wolf's mink oil. That way, you can control the lube.

Another option, which was mentioned, was a wet lube for range work. I just use spit when at the range. A spit soaked patch keeps the fouling soft and is easy to get down the bore repeatedly.

 

[Macon Due]

Diggerfly
Try to come up with some Hoppes #9 Black powder Solvent and Patch lube.I switched to it and have no idea how many shots I could fire without wiping? Over 25 for sure... :grin: This is using a 20-22 thou. Ticking patch with a .350" ball in my .36 rifle.With prelubed or grease type patch lube I was doing good to get 3 shots.
Macon

 

[BrownBear]

The rifle is a Pedersoli and has less then a 100 shots though it too.

I have the Pedersoli Frontier flinter in 50 cal, but mine is well used rather than new. The good news is that you have great things waiting down the road as more shooting smooths that bore. Mine has the original factory crown on the barrel, and requires no more than a hard push to start a .490 Hornady or homecast ball with pillow ticking patches (roughly .018) and Track of the Wolf Mink Oil Tallow for patch lube. My Frontier really likes 80 grains of 3f Goex.

More good news, I bet with the load development your 100 yard group really shrinks. My eyes have 6 decades of wear and tear on them, but I can still manage 3-4" groups out there with that load combo.

 

[roundball]

Roundball are those patches really hard to load in you rifles?

As in having to hit the starter hard with your hand a few time to get it going and

Then use both hands on the rod to get it down?

No, not at all.

One good palm smack to start it, another to bottom out the short starter.

Seat it down with one hand/one stroke using a good quality stout ramrod.

Used T/C precut/prelubed .018" pillow ticking patches in various T/C and GM barels for almost 20 years, using nominal .010" under bore size balls:
.440" / .45
.490" / .50
.530" / .54
.570" / .58

The same T/C precut/prelubed .018" pillow ticking patches load the same way in my .40cal using an even larger .395" ball in the .400" bore.

 

[Diggerfly]

Well I guess at this point the issue may just be my barrel is new.

I may try laping the barrel, that doesn't seem very difficult, just to smooth things out. The crowning process marmotslayer linked in his post seems pretty involved, (I don't have the tools to make the tools :surrender: ) so I don't see me doing that.

I will mess around with different lube to see if it makes a difference for me.

Thanks for the advice everyone. :bow:

 

[Diggerfly]

Oh and moving up in thickness to .015 patches too.

I also have some .018 ox yoke pillow ticking patches on hand also, but haven't tried them because the .015s were so tough to load.

 

[russecv58]

i would definitely say your patches are failing, and thats most likely your accuracy issue. i would suggest making your own patches from pillow ticking or #40 cotton drill. if your using Bore Butter, I'd reccomend something trying something different. ive had experiences where bore butter did not hold up to pyrodex and the patches got blown to shreds, but switching to a home made lube did the trick. keep experimenting and have fun. good luck :thumbsup:

 

[hanshi]

Good suggestions have been posted already but I guess I'll chime in. Yes, your patches are failing and experimenting with an op wad may do the trick. I cut my own .020" ticking patches and lube with Hoppes at the range. Rarely have to wipe the bore until I'm through for the day. The crown may be too sharp and/or the rifling is sharp. You can relieve the crown and a Scotchbrite patch run down the bore a couple hundred times will help break the bore in. They usually have to be fired a good bit, as well.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Your patches are Way too thin, IMHO. One of the problems with seating patch and ball at the muzzle is "Whacking " the short Starter, rather than leaning on it gently, and putting more and more pressure on it, to all the fabric to stretch.

If the cloth has not had the "sizing" -- a starch like substance put in the cloth at the factory to help it lie flat for shipping-- the cloth will NOT stretch well with Bore butter or Wonderlube. Spit works, as do the water based patch "lubes", but its best to throw the pre-cuts into a washing machine in a knitted bag, and run them through the wash cycle twice to get that sizing out. Besides, it tastes absolutely Awful. :barf: :shocked2: :rotf:

The other problem is a too flat crown, and sharp edges on the land. That cuts those stiff patches faster than you can blink your eyes. Especially if you "Whack" that short-starter.

Use the head of a lag bolt, or the rounded handle for a file, to support fine emery cloth, and rotate the barrel in one direction with one hand, while rotating the emery cloth in the other direction with your other hand, to round the crown on that muzzle, and remove the sharp edges on those lands. :thumbsup:

 

[Leatherbark]

Are you using factory swaged .490 balls in this Pedersoil? Or are you using .490 balls someone molded? If they are molded from anything except pure lead then they are larger than .490.

I had a Pedersoli Blue Ridge once that probably had the same size bore and loading was OK with a thick patch.

Bob

 

[jimikinz]

What does a "good" patch look like after firing?

 

[roundball]

What does a "good" patch look like after firing?

No cuts, tears, burn-throughs, etc

 

[RBrooks]

Ha guys, here is a dumb question, how far down
range do you retrieve those patches (spent).
I have looked many times and for some reason
can't find my shot patches to inspect.

I shoot mainly 50 yds with 50cal 55g load
at the range?? Where is my patch.

 

[123.DieselBenz]

15 - 25 feet from your muzzle, if the wind isn't blowing!