• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

How does powder granulation actually effect burn rate?

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Parts read more like the old joke "If it takes one man one hour to dig a hole, how long will it take one man to dig half a hole?' o_O

Sometime back, I read about experiments Rodman made compressing black powder into cakes with honeycomb patterns. He reached some serious pressure levels. Makes you wonder just what pressure those old dried, compressed charges might produce?
I would refer you to the last item in my post no.15

P.S If it takes 1 boy 20 minutes to dig a hole it takes 2 boys 40 minutes. That is the difference between theoretical and empirical.
 
All things being equal, small grains will have a greater collective surface area than large ones for the same weight of charge. Thus the charge burns faster which results in a faster rise to a peak pressure. The larger grains will burn for a longer time so distributing their energy over both a longer period and in a further expanding space as the load will have moved further up the barrel by the time the gas has expended. The extremes are small pistols (say .32 calibre) which may cope with a 4F charge and a large cannon (say 6" diameter) which will blow itself up with a 1F charge. Hence coarse cannon powder is sold to hobbyist cannon users and large 19th century military cannon used grains aptly termed 'pebble powder' for ones which were over an inch in diameter. Complicating it all is the heat energy which continues to expand the gasses even after they have ceased to be produced. The Swiss Aubonne black powder factory makes it's sporting powder with slightly more nitre than the classic chemical proportions used by ordinary powder makers to include more oxygen to enhance the heat expansion rather than just gas production on deflagration.

It is very hard to isolate one factor in black powder deflagration in use in such a complex material. I could also mention density, glazing (as opposed to the detrimental use of graphite for aesthetic marketing purposes) purity, wood and non wood types, creosotes and temperature of firing, pressure and length of incorporation and gas encapsulation, I will stop there as life is too short. The role of sulphur is still a field of study even today.

The ultimate grain is, of course, the solid black powder pellet which was coming into military rifle use just as smokeless powders were beginning and the shape of the pellet (in rod form for modern centre fire @8mm bore cartridges) was critical for formulating the shape and peaks of the pressure curve from ignition to expulsion and that technology became that of modern solid fuel rockets.

Note well that substituting modern solid rocket fuels for black powder in any form in a gun is not a sound idea for the backyard experimenter at all. No exceptions. Even if you are very clever and definitely not if you are just stupid and brave.

Even black powder pellets are a risk outside industrial testing. The British .303" cartridge was designed for smokeless powder but production of that was not ready when the Lee Metford rifles began production so a solid black powder pellet was used for a short while instead. The peak pressure of the black powder cartridge was noticeably greater than the replacement cordite smokeless powder cartridges and this was after extensive research and development into the black powder pellet. It is easy to make one with a sharp spike of pressure that will exceed the strength of the action.
 
I found these test results for the speed of different pan powders--->>> https://www.blackpowdermag.com/priming-powder-timing/

The results are listed in the chart and graph shown closer to the bottom of the page.

I didn't know that Swiss Null B was "reputed" to be the floor sweepings from making all of the other different granulations.

It appears to be the fastest pan powder, even faster than Swiss 4F.
 
Last edited:
I found these test results for the speed of different pan powders--->>> https://www.blackpowdermag.com/priming-powder-timing/

The results are listed in the chart and graph shown closer to the bottom of the page.

I didn't know that Swiss Null B was "reputed" to be the floor sweepings from making all of the other different granulations.

It appears to be the fastest pan powder, even faster than Swiss 4F.
Thank you for showing Larry's powder ignition graph. It indicates that small granulation not only burns faster when lit it also lights faster. This faster ignition was what I was in doubt about.
 
I got to thinking on this a bit after remembering seeing very old black powder cartridges where the BP had actually become a solid mass and still they would fire.
I understand the principle of larger grains having more air space between them which means volume is changed. This means smaller granulation allows more powder in the same area because of less air space between them hence more fuel in the explosion, increased pressure and thus velocity.
Apparently the air space around the granulation has little to do with the powder burn rate as the potassium nitrate within the powder is the oxygen source.
Now lets change the scenario to pan powder in a flint lock. It is obvious that finer grains light faster than does courser grains but why. It would seem that larger grains would have more surface area and air space between them to allow the flint sparks to light the fire but the opposite occurs in that fine grains light and burn faster.
I'm wondering if the finer powder lights easier because of the graphite coating difference between large grains and small grains. I had thought that usually the smaller grain size of black powder is from the grain fracture that is sieve out and separated from the larger sizes that have been graphite coated. Is this incorrect?
If so than the small grain fractures would not have the inhibition of a graphite coat which I think is non-flammable in solid or balk form, no?
Also, getting back to the solid mass of black powder in old shells or cartridges exploding with little difficulty, makes me think that the containment has a great deal to do with how the powder burns as opposed the the free state of say the same powder in a pan charge.
Any thoughts on the subject as it occurs to me that I don't really know much about the dynamics of how black powder burns?
Doing some thinking out loud is all.
Large grain has less overall surface area for ignition as opposed to a number of granules of equal weight of smaller size for most black powder. In other words, you can burn through kindling faster than a stick of equal overall weight... (not sure this really a great example but.. you know the tropics.... well maybe charcoal.. :D All else being equal, this will in simple terms provide more powerful a charge. This helps immensely in smaller caliber or shorter barrel lengths. In my opinion, this leads to a somewhat cleaner burn as well.
 
[All things being equal, small grains will have a greater collective surface area than large ones for the same weight of charge. Thus the charge burns faster which results in a faster rise to a peak pressure. QUOTE="Carbon 6, post: 1540560, member: 32296"][/QUOTE]

This is correct... :D
 

Latest posts

Back
Top