How far could you hunt?

[tenngun]

Reading consensus most see MLs as sort range. About fifty yards for a smoothie, two or three times that for rifle gun when hunting.
Watching the cap and ball page, an ml page done by a European shooter, he shoots a Whitworth .451.
Big bullet designed for long range shooting... and killing.
I think Perdosoli makes a repo in.451, I don’t know if it’s got the hex bore or not.
I have no intrest In one of them modern guns, I think caps and minies are just a passing fad. And if’n you can’t kill it with a ball you don’t need it.
But,
Do any of you all think ou could ‘hunt at two or twohundred in fifty yards with this, maybe more?thats a lot of lead, and accurate enough to hit a deer chest... if you could draw a beed on it.

 

[rodwha]

I’ve often contemplated a fast twist in something .375 to .45 and topped with a Malcolm style scope for hunting fields. Some feel 200 yds would work well with peeps, but I’m not so sure as I wear glasses and I’m thinking that might be a good way to shatter a lense.

 

[bang]

Problem is the trajectory curve. Rainbow is a good analogy. Sohoting 100-125 not too awful but to get past that the curve is like dropping a mortar round. The odds of just wounding or complete miss odds go way up. There were snipers that made some long shots but when you compare a kill zone of a human to a basic 9 inch area on a deer there is great increase of failure. Granted a hit on a human didn't have to kill immediately. Odds were once severely wounded and lack of good medical they would die or be rendered useless.
The pressure limit of front packers just won't give leveling of the curve.
I have hit targets at 200 with a 45 Hawken but once you walk that 200 to it that target is is 3ftx3ft or larger. I hit it but upon making the shot I couldn't tell where on it I hit. So if it was a 9 inch zone it was completely up in the air if it was a kill shot. Them deer are tiny at 200 yards. That makes the kill zone like shooting at a pin head. Other issues play too. Wind, air density, temp. Front packers can be affected by many things.
A scope might help intended placement but can't flatten that rainbow.

 

[Brokennock]

Reading consensus most see MLs as sort range. About fifty yards for a smoothie, two or three times that for rifle gun when hunting.
Watching the cap and ball page, an ml page done by a European shooter, he shoots a Whitworth .451.
Big bullet designed for long range shooting... and killing.
I think Perdosoli makes a repo in.451, I don’t know if it’s got the hex bore or not.
I have no intrest In one of them modern guns, I think caps and minies are just a passing fad. And if’n you can’t kill it with a ball you don’t need it.
But,
Do any of you all think ou could ‘hunt at two or twohundred in fifty yards with this, maybe more?thats a lot of lead, and accurate enough to hit a deer chest... if you could draw a beed on it.

With all due respect, I think you are blurring the lines between hunting game, and shooting game. Your question seems to be better phrased, "how far could you, would you, shoot at game." The hunting part involves the reduction of that distance at which we take the shot. As one modern hunting/gun writer put it many years ago, (I believe it was Elmer Keith but could have been Col. Jeff Cooper), "I prefer to hunt, before, I pull the trigger."

 

[billraby]

Pretty common to see the modern rifle guys bragging about shooting deer at 500 yards and such. My first thought is that you must be a pretty lousy hunter if that is all the closer you could get.

 

[tenngun]

With all due respect, I think you are blurring the lines between hunting game, and shooting game. Your question seems to be better phrased, "how far could you, would you, shoot at game." The hunting part involves the reduction of that distance at which we take the shot. As one modern hunting/gun writer put it many years ago, (I believe it was Elmer Keith but could have been Col. Jeff Cooper), "I prefer to hunt, before, I pull the trigger."

Not confusion for me, everything I’ve taken this century has been with a smoothie

 

[sawyer04]

Pretty common to see the modern rifle guys bragging about shooting deer at 500 yards and such. My first thought is that you must be a pretty lousy hunter if that is all the closer you could get.

My longest game shot, 70 yards, realizing that my hunting grounds are timber, brush and hollows. I like 30 to 50 yards. If I was in a state of hunger I would take the long shot. The hunt is more fun than the kill.

 

[azmntman]

Not same gun but.....

Cabelas .54 hawkin....1987 Sept.....last day bull season...180 yds, aimed 3 feet over bull with TC conical....294 LBS boneless meat, traveled 30 yds.

Act of God, do not repeat.

So yea, if yer good, know yer gun, animals at rest in field, no wind, enough light, God likes you etc etc.

I'm older now and wont shoot over 100 yds, no need to....just HUNT closer or wait for a better shot (or Safeway beef for another year LOL). I was nutty lucky but the bullet worked wonderfully.

 

[Sparkitoff]

My rifle shoot about an inch high at 100-yards and drops almost 5-inches in the next 25-yards. If the ball hasn't hit anything yet, it would drop another 12-inches in the next 25-yards. It is like it is literally falling out of the sky. However, if I use all of the elevation afforded by the rear sight it will shoot around 3-inches low at 200-yards. This creates two immediate problems: 1) it hits way to high at 50-100 yards to hit deer sized vitals (I'd be aiming at the ground in front of it), and 2) a puff of wind at 200-yards moves the ball over a foot (and over 10 MPH moves it several feet). So I really cant shoot my rifle at 200-yards....

Your questions relates specifically to a .451 with a "bullet". I've not done it myself but I speculate that with the right sights and the "ballistic table trajectory" that I see, you could hit a deer sized target zone at 200-yards regularly. There is a local guy that has a longrifle with a Malcolm scope and he shoots .451 pointy projectiles (although they may be in plastic) and he is shooting small little groups at 200-yards with ease. He uses the rifle for soybean field hunting here in N.C. I do recall the barrel is 1:24" ROT. With a Whitworth style rifle the projectile is heavy enough for the task. If the trajectory is manageable and sights are useful at 200-yards, I think it would be a 200-yard deer rifle all day long.

My son is shooting a sidelock with a scope and a 250 grain .44 caliber bullet sighted in at 150-yards. He uses it for a specific application where his friends ranch has blinds set up that create 150-yard deer opportunities. He said he is about tapped out in range-usefulness because his magnification is low, objective is small and velocity is limited by short barrel. Although the rifle and load are hunting accurate at 150-yards, another 50-yards is too much to keep a tight group. The rifle you are talking about is more "purpose built" so therefore should be able to do the 200-yards.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I think the question is one of your own personal capabilities and ethics, in using the chosen weapon. If the weapon and projectile has a reasonable chance of making a quick or clean kill at the range contemplated, given the circumstances and your capabilities, then yeah, go ahead and take the shot.

A lot of times, how hungry you are, how deep in to the hunt you are, distance from the road, or trophy size may enter in to that decision too, which may affect our judgment. My rule of thumb is to never pass up a shot on the first day of a hunt that I would take on the last day.

 

[Einsiedler]

My eyes are getting bad. I doubt there will be many future 100 yard shots.

Even tho I did manage a kill at 140 paces with open sights with a 105 y o unmentionable last November. But it’s gettin’ lots harder to see sights. Gonna try elk this fall. Missed last season and I’m about out of my 2018 cow ( 35 yd shot with a 115 y o unmentionable). Being an elkaholic, I need my fix. Gonna take both my old restock contract rifle flinter and Hawken fullstock. Both .54 cal. Use same hunting pouch and loads in both.

 

[renegadehunter]

Look up Idaholewis (youtube, rarely on this forum anymore), he regularly stretches his .45's with big lead conicals out to much further distances than 200-250 yards (on targets, not animals).
With that being said, he also clearly states that he feels too much can go wrong at those distances when shooting at an animal and chooses to stay around a 100 yards like most all of us do. But in a survival situation and really needing food? I think he could easily take animals, ethically, out to 300 with his proven loads.
Likely there are several other conical folks that could too. Idahoron also comes to mind.

As far as wanting to, well, to me one of the major addictions of this BP bug I have is the need to have some woodsman's skills before a shot can be taken (I don't think this is the purpose of your thread though).

 

[nkbj]

Have to sight in first for elevation.

 

[nkbj]

Just for grins I'm gonna see how well this one will handle minies and REALs.
It has an industry typical fifty caliber barrel with 48" twist.
And a painted wooden stock
I call it my scary black rifle.

 

[Einsiedler]

I think the question is one of your own personal capabilities and ethics, in using the chosen weapon. If the weapon and projectile has a reasonable chance of making a quick or clean kill at the range contemplated, given the circumstances and your capabilities, then yeah, go ahead and take the shot.

A lot of times, how hungry you are, how deep in to the hunt you are, distance from the road, or trophy size may enter in to that decision too, which may affect our judgment. My rule of thumb is to never pass up a shot on the first day of a hunt that I would take on the last day.

I concur. When Elk hunting, if after a bull l, first legal critter I can get a good ethical shot at, gets shot. Generally I try for dry cows now. No use for those horns anymore.

 

[hanshi]

While I did shoot some deer at 100 + yards years ago, I'd likely pass up anything over 75 yards now. Bad eyes and other stuff. 200 yds? I would never, ever consider it then or now.

 

[Bledfor Days]

I'd be confident taking a shot at 30-50 yds. with a patched roundball shooting offhand. I don't have any experience with minies or maxis so I can't comment.

 

[fleener]

No doubt about it that you can accurately shoot a deer at 250 yards with a .451 ML. I have done it quite a bit. You have to use a range finder IMO to be able to do it in hunting situations and be ethical and responsible to the animal. Being able to read the wind is also a much bigger issue the farther out you go.

Adjustable sights is a must IMO. You will need to know your sight settings for the various yardage and also as a shooter you will need to be comfortable with your rifle.

Fleener

 

[user 36911]

Sneak in close. Make believe that no matter what weapon you're using you won't shoot until you're in longbow range.

That's hunting.

 

[brazosland]

Knowing the range is the most important thing. Knowing your rifle and load is also the most important thing. A lot of experience shooting is also the most important thing.

I instruct military precision shooters. If you practice enough, in environmental conditions similar to what you are shooting game in, the results are predictable. I have killed hogs past 900 yards. Longest shot on deer is about 700 (custom built 300 PRC that has fired 4” five shot groups at 1000 yards). We were culling does (it happens in Texas.)

My oldest son and I have a put together 1841 Mississippi with a Benton sight on a Zoli rifle with a relined barrel. Using Pritchett bullets we are getting 80% hits on an 18x24” steel plate at 500 yards. This is the same type rifle used by Texas sharpshooters at Gettysburg.

The real challenge with the 1841 is wind. A proper wind call is important for all long range shooting...it is even more so with these weapons. On a calm day we are at almost 100% hits at 400 yards on the same size plate.

It can be done. I can get very reliable hits with my full stock .62 Hawken and .54 Lancaster trade rifle at 200...but I don’t see myself ever trying that on game. Maybe a hog under the right conditions.