How fast does a 50 cal PRB need to be for deer?

[hanshi]

I've killed deer with the .62, .54, .50 and .45. Most were taken with .45s at up to 75 yards. .45 is my favorite caliber and I have three. I've gotten quite a few DRT and none has run more than a few yards; just one shot on all. I did take a couple of deer at around 100 yards with two different .50 cal; All I've ever used in the field are prb. It doesn't take much at all to kill a deer as long as you hit it right.

 

[hawkeye2]

Back in the 80's I bought a .50 Sharon trade rifle from a friend. He had killed 5 deer with it and his statement to me was "50 grains of 2f will put a .50 round ball right through a whitetail from side to side". How much more do you need?

 

[kemart17]

I was fooling around with PRB in my TC Hawken today and found that if I use an over powder wad I can go up to 75 grains of Black MZ with very good accuracy at 50 yards. My vision doesn't permit me to really see what I could possibly do with the load at 100, so lets assume the farthest shot I might take with this load is 75 yards (and most likely would be insider 50). I believe the ball is doing about 1500 FPS out of the muzzle. Enough for deer? I would be looking at white tails, mostly.

that load will have no problem with a deer!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

…, his statement to me was "50 grains of 2f will put a .50 round ball right through a whitetail from side to side". How much more do you need?

About 10 more grains.....

Sorry, that's a bit of an "inside joke". Here in Maryland the minimum rifle load by law for deer is 60 grains, regardless of the caliber, so while 50 grains with a .490 patched round ball will likely go through the deer, at the proper distance or closer... in my state you'd need to be using a minimum of 60 grains.

It's not The People's Republic of Maryland (imho) for nothin' !

LD

 

[Boomerang]

in my state you'd need to be using a minimum of 60 grains

How would a DNR officer know how much powder was in your gun?

 

[Sidney Smith]

I've heard of minimum caliber for deer but never a minimum powder charge. Agree how would they ever know how much powder you used? Doubt they'd make you pull a ball and dump the powder for them to check.

 

[hawkeye2]

I've heard of minimum caliber for deer but never a minimum powder charge. Agree how would they ever know how much powder you used? Doubt they'd make you pull a ball and dump the powder for them to check.

Never count on that, they are governmnt employees.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've heard of minimum caliber for deer but never a minimum powder charge. Agree how would they ever know how much powder you used? Doubt they'd make you pull a ball and dump the powder for them to check.

They can use a CO2 discharger and dump your bullet and the powder into an evidence container, and then check the powder amount...

Muzzleloading rifles or shotguns used for deer hunting must be at least .40 caliber in size and must use 60 grains of black powder or more (a black powder equivalent is acceptable) ...…, Muzzleloading handguns used for deer hunting must be at least .40 caliber with a barrel length of at least 6 inches and must use 40 grains of black powder or more (a black powder equivalent is acceptable) ….,

Do you see the flaw in the regulation? So is it 60 grains by weight OR by volume measure? What if your volume measure doesn't really throw the right weight by weight of powder? How much powder was stuck in the barrel?

LD

 

[Sidney Smith]

That's absolutely ridiculous. Glad I dont live in Maryland. Has anyone there ever been subjected to the CO2 discharged or is it just an insubstantiated rumor?

 

[Dr5x]

THE OVER POWDER WAD IS WHAT I HAVE LONG CALLED "AN END RUN".
IT COMPENSATES FOR A TOO THIN SHOOTING PATCH MATERIAL.
I HAVE HEAR OF OTHE ODD THINGS LIKE WADS OD NEWSPAPES AND PARTS OFWASP NEST BEING USED FOR SUCH WDS. SOME MIGHTCAUSE DOWB RANGE FIES, NOT A GOOD THING WHEN THINGS ARE RATHER DRY.

I ALWAYS FELTIT WAS ORE TRADITIONAL AND ELEGANT TO HAVE A SIMPLE SHOOTING PATCH MATERIAL THAT PROVIDES THE FUNCTION OF THE WD BY BEING JUST THICK ENOUGH WHEN COMPRESSED TO PREVEVENT THE BLOW BY OF A TOO THIN OR TOO SLICK A PATCH LUBE.

ALSO, THE ADDING OF ANOTHER STEP IN THE LOADING PROCESS WAS JUST ONE MORE THING TO AVOID.

DUTCH SCHOULTZ

that load will have no problem with a deer!

 

[Eterry]

My best friend has a 54 CAL TC, we were sighting it in, he bought a lb of ffg. We decided to start at 50grs to sight it in an then go from there.

Three shots later, at 50yards, he had a nice cloverleaf, at point of aim.

He declared it was good enough, i urged him to go up 10 more grains but no doing.

He killed the biggest buck on our property at about 45 yards, complete pass thru, deer went less than 50yards.

I've been hunting with a 58 musket, using the same load as in ACW: 500 grain minie and 60 grains fffg. (They probably used ffg).
I've killed 2 deer, both under 60 yards, both complete pass thru's, both traveled less than 50yards.

Your load, properly placed, will do just fine.
Here's my last deer using 60 grs and a 500 gr. Minie

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Has anyone there ever been subjected to the CO2 discharged or is it just an insubstantiated rumor?

Sure has. In one case they came across a guy who was up to "other things" so they "popped out" his load and cited him for being under as well as additional violations.
In another case the fellow was "less than cordial" with the DNR officer just checking hunting permits, and the officer noted the guy's powder measure was pretty small, so when asked about that the guy continued to be less than cordial, saying something like, "You want to check it, you get it out. I'm not pulling S_ _ _." So the DNR officer popped it out, and when checked, the guy was cited.

I don't think the DNR use that alone for much of anything. Most of the guys hunting deer with ML's in my area aren't going traditional and like something between 100 and 120 grains. BUT..., When you get stopped and are probably poaching, or if you think every LEO is some member of the "Black Helicopter Conspiracy", and are abusive, the LEO's tend to start digging.

LD

 

[omark]

A good friend of mine killed a lot of deer with a 52 caliber round ball and 62 grains of 3F.

 

[Flintandsteel]

To sum it up.....

As fast as it will go accurately!
Shot placement is waaaaay more important.

 

[dave951]

To sum it up.....

As fast as it will go accurately!
Shot placement is waaaaay more important.

And that sums it up right there. You can't miss enough with fast bullets to hit anything.......

 

[Loyalist Dave]

As fast as it will go accurately!

Well my .54 rifle will shoot very fast and accurate with 90 grains at 100 yards. I use 70 since it's still accurate with that load, and it gives me roughly 100 shots to the pound of powder, and kicks less than the 80 grain load and much less than the 90 grain load. Kills deer pretty well too.

I figured that if a .45 caliber, 405 grain lead conical bullet fired with 70 grains of powder will take deer, no worries, out to 300 yards in cartridge gun, then my 225 grain .530 round ball with 70 grains, from my flinter, would be good out to 100 yards. That's regarding power. Whether I can see the deer at 100 yards to use the open sights, is a different factor.

LD

 

[Zonie]

I don't have a problem at all with folks using the hottest powder load that shoots accuretly for hunting but, if the hunter is using a patched roundball, all of that additional velocity quickly disappears as the ball flies downrange.

Take the graph below that shows the starting muzzle velocity and the velocity at various ranges downrange.

It shows the velocity at 20 yard intervals starting at the muzzle on the left and going out to 120 yards on the right.

The initial velocities were from Lymans "BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK & LOADING MANUAL", 2nd, ed.
The velocities at the various distances was calculated using my roundball trajectory software on my computer.

As you can see, out at 100 yards (next to the last dot on the right) the very fast shot has slowed down to a speed that's not that much greater than the slower muzzle velocity shots.

 

[Bad Karma]

I’ve long believed that unless you’re shooting large caliber rifles, say .58 and over, at dangerous or thick skinned game, anything over 80 grains is probably a waste of powder. A roundball from a. .50 or .54 loafing along at 900 FPS is deadly medicine for whitetail and muleys.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Last deer I shot with a .490 rb was with 80 grs of 3F placed low thru the shoulders it went about 50-60 yds. You will have no problem with your load. Good hunting, Dan.

 

[SDSmlf]

I don't have a problem at all with folks using the hottest powder load that shoots accuretly for hunting but, if the hunter is using a patched roundball, all of that additional velocity quickly disappears as the ball flies downrange.

Take the graph below that shows the starting muzzle velocity and the velocity at various ranges downrange.

It shows the velocity at 20 yard intervals starting at the muzzle on the left and going out to 120 yards on the right.

The initial velocities were from Lymans "BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK & LOADING MANUAL", 2nd, ed.
The velocities at the various distances was calculated using my roundball trajectory software on my computer.

As you can see, out at 100 yards (next to the last dot on the right) the very fast shot has slowed down to a speed that's not that much greater than the slower muzzle velocity shots.

View attachment 10941

No argument with the numbers. Higher velocity camp argues that they get a flatter trajectory. No graph (using RB calculator on phone), but using a 50 yard zero you are 3.7” lower at 125 yards at 1450 FPS muzzle velocity when compared to 1900 FPS. 3.7” doesn’t sound like much, except those who have shaved hair off an animal. Personally, with my RB muzzleloaders I try and sight in with a 100 yard zero. No more than 3” low at 100 yards and/or no more than 3” high at 50 yards. If I can’t get there have to increase powder charge or reduce max distance with that gun.