How fast does a 50 cal PRB need to be for deer?

[45man]

Hardly anyone today knows how deadly a ML can be. Only accuracy counts and not velocity. Hit the spot and eat meat.

 

[45man]

I shot steel chickens off hand at 200 meters with a RB from my Hawken. I know my rifle.
My RB's have cleanly taken deer to 125 yards .45, .50 and .54. Love is traditional and real BP. Some deer I shot looked like I used a .300 Weatherby on them.

 

[Penny B]

I have used a .50 TC Hawkin with a .495 PRB and 75 grains of 3F. In thirty years I have lost one deer. Bucked dropped at the shot but so did I. I was recovering from a tree stand fall and had seven broken ribs. I should not have been shooting. When I got back in the game no deer and no blood. In all that time I have only recovered one ball. It was flat, located right alongside the tail. He was shot head on in the sternum.

 

[Olde Goat]

I used to hunt cow elk with a friend in Colorado. Between the two of us we killed 4 elk in 5 years with .490 PRBs on 100 grains of 2F. Three dropped in their tracks, one ran about 50 yards. We never shot at anything more than 100 yards away. The one in the photo was hit at about 70 yards and went right down.

Out of curiosity, I recently chronographed that load from the same rifle (36" barrel). Four shots averaged 1745 +/-20 fps about 7 yards from the muzzle. 80 grains produced 1590 +/- 10 fps.

 

[45man]

I will stand by my observations that no gun does better for hunting then a ML. Yes you can shoot far with modern guns but it is not hunting, it is shooting. Hunting is having your heart race with a close animal. A ML is like having a stick and string.
I hunted chucks to as far as 700 yards with a .220 Swift but the one I remember most is when I had to pee. A chuck came out a few yards away so I left the dingle dangle and pulled the cap and ball to make waste of the chuck. Once I shot a large doe on a full out run at 220 yards with a .280. It only meant I could shoot. I sold the rifle.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Many of you already are aware, but I will pass along once again; my go to load in my .54 percussion Renegade barrel is 90gr Pyrodex P with .530rb and .018 olive oil lubed patch, in my .54 GM 1:70 barrel percussion is 110gr Pyrodex Select with the same ball and patch combo, and lastly in my .50 GPR flint to cap conversion is 90gr Pyrodex P with .490rb and .018 olive oil patch. These are my very accurate hunting loads out of my favourite rifles. Have taken whitetail, mullies, black bear and moose (no elk yet) without having lost a single animal. All shot broadside inside (estimated distance) of 100yds. Most pass throughs with the exception of one moose, recovered on the off side. These things are lethal in the hands of a skilled hunter!
Walk

 

[Eterry]

I was fooling around with PRB in my TC Hawken today and found that if I use an over powder wad I can go up to 75 grains of Black MZ with very good accuracy at 50 yards. My vision doesn't permit me to really see what I could possibly do with the load at 100, so lets assume the farthest shot I might take with this load is 75 yards (and most likely would be insider 50). I believe the ball is doing about 1500 FPS out of the muzzle. Enough for deer? I would be looking at white tails, mostly.

Was perusing some data and we certainly use heavier charges than 150 years ago.
The 44 Henry, which was a great man and deer cartridge, used a 210 grain bullet and a healthy dose of 28Grs of fine powder...(maybe ffffg??) for a velocity around 1250fps. To put it in perspective thats a 41 Magnum load...not exactly what I wanna be catching.

The 56/56 Spencer was considered the 458 Win Mag of its day, and slung a 350 gr bullet ahead of 45Grs of black powder, with a velocity of approx 1200fps. It was used by bear hunters, and even old "Crow Killer" aka Jeremiah Johnson was issued one and hung on to it after the war.

My point is these were considered "IMPROVEMENTS" of muzzle loaders, not just by rapidity of fire, but in ballistics as well.
IIRC, Ned Roberts spoke of using a small powder measure, and using one scoop for small game, 2 scoops for large, and 3 "loaded for bear". I'm sure lots of hunters back then set out for squirrels and found deer, so placed their shot accordingly. Powder was a valuable item and not to be wasted.

I'm not saying to use 25grs for deer, but my buddy does nicely with 50grs of ffg., which according to the charts gives around 1000fps, which is close to a 44-40 Winchester. Tons of deer were taken with that cartridge in its day.

Deer aren't hard to kill, if you place your shot.

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Eterry You make a valid point on loads . Re that 16 bore barrel I am sorting funds what would postage run? Did you get a hammer could you PM me please Regards Rudyard

 

[hanshi]

From .45 on up, the damage caused by prb on deer is often spectacular and always eye opening. It doesn't take much velocity for that round ball to be lethal on large animals. Patched round ball is all I've ever taken to the bush with. I usually, but not always, use an op wad. It might be hornet nest, felt, leather or even toilet paper. Some warn about starting fires with these, but never have concerns about paper patched bullets or paper cartridges. These materials simply won't burn and I've never experienced even a smoldering patch when shooting either with or without them. Virtually all my large game guns/calibers shoot between 60grns and 70grns of powder. Everywhere I've hunted the minimum legal charge was 50 grains of powder, more than enough.

 

[shane a gress]

Never seen a deer shot with a round ball that I wanted to trade places with.

 

[Newtire]

I agree that your 75 grain charge is more than adequate for deer hunting. I have a question. Are you using standard percussion caps to ignite the load of Black MZ? I have never used this substitute, as I prefer flintlocks that require real black, but I have heard that Black MZ requires a higher temperature ignition source to ignite. Do you get any hang fires?

I have had great success with the Black MZ. I got some slow ignition in a flintlock I tried it in when using 10 gr. 3f real black on the bottom as a sort of priming charge. Never had any problems setting it off in a percussion using Remington caps. Cartridge guns including shotguns=instant ignition. It likes heavier bullets and Alliant says to seat firmly against powder. Got velocities very much the same as 2f black using the heavier Minie balls and 60 gr. (equivalent by volume). Seems to be pretty good stuff but for some reason, they are taking it off the market?

 

[Vomir le Chien]

Nothing to do with speed it's all about shot placement.

 

[Eterry]

Nothing to do with speed it's all about shot placement.

I completely agree, but...it seems almost everyone seems to have more confidence in a higher velocity load. I recall reading some back issues of MB, and the original velocity of European hunting rifles were in the 1200-1300 fps class. I recall a story of using a rifle once owned by Prince Albert to take game, using a heavy RB and around 1200 fps. The author cleanly took his elk using the same load.

I recall reading and hearing about "equal grains per caliber; ie. 45grs fffg for a 45 caliber" 40 years ago...that's rarely spoke of today.

I'm reading Walter Cline's book and he recommends, for TARGET shooting, 1/4th grs of powder related to bullet weight. A 50 cal RB at 180 grs would call for a load of 45 grains....

My best accuracy so far with my 40 cal is a RB of 92grs and a charge of 20grs of fffg. Would i hunt deer with it....probably not.

 

[Walkingeagle]

I completely agree, but...it seems almost everyone seems to have more confidence in a higher velocity load. I recall reading some back issues of MB, and the original velocity of European hunting rifles were in the 1200-1300 fps class. I recall a story of using a rifle once owned by Prince Albert to take game, using a heavy RB and around 1200 fps. The author cleanly took his elk using the same load.

I recall reading and hearing about "equal grains per caliber; ie. 45grs fffg for a 45 caliber" 40 years ago...that's rarely spoke of today.

I'm reading Walter Cline's book and he recommends, for TARGET shooting, 1/4th grs of powder related to bullet weight. A 50 cal RB at 180 grs would call for a load of 45 grains....

My best accuracy so far with my 40 cal is a RB of 92grs and a charge of 20grs of fffg. Would i hunt deer with it....probably not.

My accuracy load in my .50 gpr conversion is 50gr Pyro P. Shoots like a dream!!
Walk

 

[WRustyLane]

My accuracy load for my .50 cal Pedersoli is 90 grains of FFg over a pillow tickin' patched .490 round ball using mink tallow lube. Shoots like no other!

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Eterry You make a valid point on loads . Re that 16 bore barrel I am sorting funds what would postage run? Did you get a hammer could you PM me please Regards Rudyard

Dear Eterry I need you to PM your address re barrel payment. It can go to Spokane Ime sure there will be some means of PM ing others but I cant figure how its done Rudyard

 

[Sparkitoff]

My .54 caliber loads in 4 rifles are most accurate at 80 grains powder. That's approximately 1/3 ball weight. My 5th rifle in .54 caliber likes 100 grains best, so that one doesn't hold true to the theory. But for a whitetail deer out to 100-yards any charge weight from 55 grains up has enough penetration to go through a deer with a soft-tissue shot. I use more powder for the accuracy I get, not the "power".

 

[Frontier's]

70gr 3fg goex, .490 home cast on both animals.

 

[Nessmuck56]

Shot a deer with my .45 McCoy....looked like a piano fell on him...but it was only a 20 yard shot...the woods are thick around here.

 

[hanshi]

60 grains of 3F is very accurate in my .54. Velocity is around 1300 fps.