How hard to build???

How hard is it to build a musket? I want the Chief Wilson from Caywood and they have several kit levels. I have never done it before but am good at making my own stuff. A gun seems a bit daunting though...

Any recommendations as to kit level or "don't even try it!"? :youcrazy: I am on a TIGHT budget and figure I can save some money. Is it worth it?

By the way, if it makes a difference, it'll be a 20 guage and simple; something useful but not fancy.

Thank ye!


Don Jose

 

Caywood puts out several fine kits. You couldn't go wrong using them.

 

I will definately go with Caywood; saw one of their Wilsons first hand and I was awestruck!!! . But I am not sure if building a kit is something best left to experienced artisans, or if it's something a first timer can do, and whether it is worth the money saved etc.

 

[vradin]

But I am not sure if building a kit is something best left to experienced artisans, or if it's something a first timer can do, and whether it is worth the money saved etc.

I did it, and if I can so can anyone else. Definately worth the time and effort, not only monitarily, but in the knowledge gained about the rifle itself, and the satisfaction factor. If you have the time and tools, then it's more than worth it to build your own.

Look for rootnuke's posting about his kit and the link to his website detailing stages and steps. :imo: An excellent resource for first timers and experienced woodworkers.

vic

 

Any sources as to tools, techniques? I tried searching for that rootnuke fellow, but no luck.

 

[Zonie]

Don Jose: There are basically two kinds of "kits".
The first kind are the ones made by Lyman, Thompson Center, Traditions and several other large companies.
These are basically factory gun parts which were pulled off of the production line at various stages of compleation.
The lock, barrel, trigger and some of the brass furniture are finished. The stock is inlet for the barrel, lock, butt plate etc.
The work consists of finish sanding the wood, finishing the wood and installing the hardware.
Sometimes little things like the fit of the lock, trigger etc needs some attention.
These guns are relativly easy to complete and are usually priced in the $250-380 price range.

The second kind (which is what your describing) consists of the parts in a rough state of finish.
Usually the lock and the set trigger (if used) are complete and fully functional.
The barrel usually needs to have the breech plug installed, the sight dovetails cut, the outside surfaces draw filed, the Flintlock vent or Precussion drum hole drilled, tapped and the vent liner or precussion drum installed, the underlugs dovetails or staple holes drilled and the underlugs installed, the outside surfaces finished and the sights installed.

The stock is usually rough inlet for the barrel, and lock but the final inletting of the barrel, the lock, the slots for the underlugs, the barrel tang will have to be done.
The outside of the stock will require anywhere from a little wood removed, to large amounts of wood removed.
The trigger will have to be installed, the length of pull determined and the butt plate cut made and the buttplate installed.
The thimbels, side plate, cross pin holes (for the barrel underlugs) the nose cap, patchbox will have to be inlet and installed.
The castings for the butt plate and trigger guard are rough sand castings and will require finishing and polishing.

There are a number of other things which will need to be done and I could go on, but by now you should have an idea of the size of the work envolved.
You should plan on spending at least 200 hours on finishing your gun.

If you feel up to it, go for it! It's a great hobby.

 

HOLY...!!! Sounds like quite a bit!

I went to the Caywood site and this is what it said about their kits:

BOTH KITS; feature 98% inletted stock. Barrel and lock 100% inletted. Pre-drilled holes in stock for tang bolt, cross bolts, barrel tenons and ramrod thimbles. Barrel tenons installed and slotted, front sight installed and tang bolt hole pre-drilled and tapped. Lock bolt holes are tapped and touch-hole is drilled and coned. Wood is straight grain maple and prices listed are for smoothbore guns. Wood up-grades are available, call for details. Safety-use manual, blueing or browning, stain and assembly instructions included.

BASIC; kit will retain some cutter marks.

SEMI-FINISHED; kit has the following additional work done: all cutter marks removed, lock panels shaped, comb-line shaped, wrist shaped, tang-carving smoothed and sanded and top of tang area to barrel channel shaped.

Seems like maybe theirs has a lot more already done. This basic kit seems like it's pretty well worked on already, considering that the stock is reportedly "98%" inleted.

What do you think?

Any good books/posts on doing the rest of the work? Tools?

Thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[vradin]

HOLY...!!! Sounds like quite a bit!
....
Seems like maybe theirs has a lot more already done. This basic kit seems like it's pretty well worked on already, considering that the stock is reportedly "98%" inleted.

Any good books/posts on doing the rest of the work? Tools?

Here's the thread about the rifle, Thread Here

and rootnuke's website: http://www.rootnuke.com
look on the LEFT menu for the Early Lancaster pages. As I said- one of the best documented builds I've seen.

As for tools- basic woodworker tools plus some sharp!! chisels, files, scrapers, and patience. LOTS of patience. 98% inletted saves most of the precision and difficult work, but you'll have plenty left with that last 2%.

This is noe of those times that the journey is more important than the destination. Having built one from a similar kit, it's amazing how much more the wood does to you than you do to the wood.

vic

 

That is one BEAUTIFUL rifle! Thank you!

I was looking also at the Track of the Wolf catalog gun kits. How are these in quality? How are the locks? Feel free to private message me if you don't want to comment in the open (my word: I won't tell anyone).

Caywood certainly seems to be THE way to go, but I wonder if this is more regarding having a rifle built. I was thinking that if I will build some myself the parts from T of the W are good. How are their locks anyway? I noticed they have some cone option for the touchhole, but I'd think that kind of creates a shaped charge effect: a bit uncomfortable if and when it goes. I also think that the breech plug install is crucial right? Probably worth the extra $25 to have it done ahead of time?

I am trying to learn as much as possible and will probably get one of the books on building rifles.

Again,

Thank you!
:redthumb:

 

[Finnwolf]

Hi Don,
Allow me to pass on the advice I have received from some other members here. Thanks again to BirdDog 6, Smallpatch, Darkhorse, Rootnuke and too many others to name. These guys did it for me a couple of months ago, so I'll pass it on to you.
First, I have built nothing yet other than a couple of caplock pistols long ago and some rifle stock refinishing over the years. I first got bitten by the build bug about 4 years ago. I marveled at websites for Track, Jim Chambers and others. Some of these sites tell you you can assemble their kit in 40 hours and perhaps some people can. Then talk to people who have built one and you begin to hear abour 200+ hours. If you look at rifles built by the guys above you will understand where 200 hours comes from. You cannot slap together rifles as beautiful as the ones these guys make.
I managed to avoid building a kit 3 years ago because I felt that the cost (around $1000) was prohibitive and I really did have the time to dedicate. So, the bug faded away. About 4 months ago, I stumbled on this site and other forums and the bug came back, much stronger this time. I haven't actually ordered anything yet but I've bought some carving chisels and exacto knives. When Rootnuke sends me the templates he promised me, I'm going to practice carving. I might even send him a good cigar if he comes across for me.
To keep this from getting too long, I guess how long it takes really depends what quality level you are expecting. If you want to try to emulate what Rootnuke did, he'll tell you that 250 hours over about 7 months is what it takes for a first build with a brass domed patchbox, carving behind the cheek, tang and entry pipe. Others have told me that if you are building a rifle without these things that maybe 100 to 150 hours will do it. Unless I get really good at carving before I finish my rifle, it will have no carving. I am not sure that I want a patchbox because in 10 years of flintlock hunting I haven't used one myself. I intend to try to find a grade 6 or 7 stock so beautiful that it will be fine without these decorations.
You'll need some basic tools like chisels, files and sandpaper to finish your kit and some other tools like a drill press come in handy. Books like Dixon's "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle" and Alexander's "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" will show you all you need to know. There are even videos if you learn better by seeing than by reading. You need to have some mechanical and wood working ability to keep your flaws to a minimum. The most important tool is patience. Do you have the patience to read until you understand, to think it through, to practice on scrap until you get it right the 1st time on your gun? Slow down, don't ever rush. The first pistol I built 20 years ago, I slapped together quickly and it sure looked like it. I wanted to shoot it so badly and my patience as a 18 year old would not allow me to take my time. On the second one, I took my time and I was not ashamed to show it to anyone, in fact, I sold it a few years later to a friend that admired it. If you are in a rush because you want to shoot, buy a used CVA or T/C or a Hawken kit from Cabelas that you can shoot while you build your masterpiece.
Resign yourself that if you tackle this project, it will take 150 hours over 6 months with a lot of advice and help from these guys and you will end up with a great looking, well working classic longrifle. Rush, and you will turn your $1,000 kit into a $200 mess.
If you have any other questions, you can PM me or do what I did - research the archives on this site and ask questions. I'll be glad to help if I can. Did you ever get so much advice from someone who never built a rifle?
Finnwolf

 

THanks for that info Finnwolf. It seems the best thing is to get the Wilson Trade Gun I want from Caywood, in the white, so as to just have to stain it and shoot. For now I want something simple and rugged, and that Wilson sure is that, and beautiful. I'd like to maybe get into building, but you are right; I need a first gun. I think the WIlson will do. :redthumb:

 

[DRC]

You are on the money

 

[rootnuke]

Hi Don,
RE: Finnwolf...When Rootnuke sends me the templates he promised me, I'm going to practice carving. I might even send him a good cigar if he comes across for me....

Hey Finnwolf, When it starts to get warmer do you think you'll be able to pry that badger off your head. :crackup:

Don't send a cigar, post pictures. I cannot wait to see the results, of the carving, not the badger removal. :shocking:

go here... Isaac Haines Carving Templates

Just playing around, sorry it took so long. I've been shooting!!! eace:

 

[Finnwolf]

Hi Root,
It ain't showing any signs of getting any warmer here - besides, I ain't near as pretty without my cover on. And "that badger" needs a warm place to sit too.

Figured you'd be shooting that new rifle every chance you get - that's what I'd be doing too. Thanks for posting the templates - now I can start making the chips fly.

Finnwolf

 

[AaronT]

Great thread. This oughta be stickied for all newbies like me to see IMO.

I've resisted this bug a few times over the years. It always comes back though, and I'm not sure I'll be able to resist this time! The Isaac Haines and Jacob Dickert kits on the TotW site are calling to me. The only thing holding me back at the moment is lack of funds. I should be able to pull enough together for a decent kit by July though.

In the mean time I'll read through the archives, get myself a copy of Recreating the American Longrifle, and sharpen some chisels!

Aaron

 

[oldarmy]

I know how you feel. I am going to build my first kit this year come hell or high water.
I have been slowly getting my tools together. Mill files, numbered drills and taps, a main spring vise, etc.
i am going to buy a kit, but have the minium gunsmithing work done on it. I will have to to have the breech plug instaled, but the rest I am going to do myself.
It mught look like heck when it's done, but I put it together myself.
After I see how this goes, I am going to make one out a local piece of Cherry that was cut in my back yard.